T Nation

Tren & Test the Hard Way

While I’ve been a member of T-nation for quite a while now, I think this is my first journey into the dark room.

Anyhow -

My situation is kind of rare and I have 2 questions that need to be answered before I can proceed.

  1. I’m 40, 5’10", weigh 210 @ 12-14% BF. I’ve never juiced before except for a cycle of MAG-10. Is test/tren a decent first cycle? From what I’ve read, that stack will yield excellent mass gains, while actually cutting BF. I’m not in it for strength so much as I just want to be huge.

  2. Assuming that T/T is okay for me, what is ya’lls advice on homebrewing? Now before you dismiss it out of hand, which I would do were I giving advice, consider this: I have an unlimited, unfettered supply of finaplix and synovex implants (I live in cattle country). I also have the same access to embryo transfer labs - i.e. operating room-like sterility.

YGPM bro. As for whether or not it’s alright for your goals I’d say it should be more than fine. Some people will say that tren shouldn’t be used for the first time cylce but IMO the first is generally the best and not much can beat a test/tren/dbol cycle. BTW if you can get it I’d throw d-bol in for the first 4 weeks then switch my test ester over to something short like prop/suspension for the last 2-3 weeks so you could start you’re pct asap. BTW, I’d try to stick to 6-8 weeks for my first cycle say test throughout at 500mgs a week minimum with 25-50 mgs d-bol ed for 4 weeks then drop the d-bol and switch to tren.

Rain man t/t stack sounds great in threory except you gave us too little of your theory…How much of each of these compounds and for how long will this cycle be. Also you mentioned no pct plans. Help us help you. Lay out your proposed cycle including dosing per day and week and you will get a lot of specific info about your compounds and on how to best cycle them.

Wide guy gave you some good advise saying to add the dbol and to get shorter acting test esters in at the end of you cycle to enable you to start pct right away. However, I don’t think you would need anywhere near 50mg ed of dbol on your first cycle especially not for 4 weeks. I would say keep it to 30mg ed or less and that is if you really want to add another compound to this cycle. It would definantly be a good addition for you to consider.
Welcome to the darkside.
DA

[quote]Darkangel wrote:
Rain man t/t stack sounds great in threory except you gave us too little of your theory…How much of each of these compounds and for how long will this cycle be. Also you mentioned no pct plans. Help us help you. Lay out your proposed cycle including dosing per day and week and you will get a lot of specific info about your compounds and on how to best cycle them.
[/quote]

Thanks, DA. I guess I didn’t frame my question very well. I’m no where close to needing advice on a cycle, or PCT - tons of reading and research left before getting to those stages.

I was reading CY Wilson’s article, “Steroid Super Stacks” - and the number one stack is T/T. A little light went on, as I have a ton of experience with implanting cattle - Finaplix and Synovex are the exact same stack with the exception of the estradiol in the Synovex.

Given the fact that I can get both of these implants ad lib, and I have access to a laboratoy, would it be worth it to try and make my own gear?

I guess what I’m asking is, if you were in my situation - would you give homebrewing a shot?

If not - I’m going to Mexico.

Tren is quite easy to make. If you do some research, and get the right supplies, this will be by far the most cost effective method.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Tren is quite easy to make. If you do some research, and get the right supplies, this will be by far the most cost effective method.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. Never had a problem with any of the stuff I made.

Agreed that 50 mgs of d-bol a day is not likely to be necessary for a first time user. In fact I’ve used it in all three cycles I’ve done and never went over 40. But I have friends who didn’t notice a thing until they did 50, btw they weren’t bigger than me and it was from the same batch. I also reccomend the d-bol because it makes me feel pretty damn happy.

[quote]Wideguy wrote:
Agreed that 50 mgs of d-bol a day is not likely to be necessary for a first time user. In fact I’ve used it in all three cycles I’ve done and never went over 40. But I have friends who didn’t notice a thing until they did 50, btw they weren’t bigger than me and it was from the same batch. I also reccomend the d-bol because it makes me feel pretty damn happy. [/quote]

And yet, I get good results from just 15 mg/day

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
And yet, I get good results from just 15 mg/day[/quote]

Is the d-bol just for the buzz factor, or does it do something that test won’t? If stacking d-bol, tren and test prop, is there greater synergy in the 3 versus just t/t?

rainjack…

I highly recommend getting some Keflex or an equivalent before you start a cycle of home brew.

man, you’re going to have alot of fun on your first cycle at your age…you might want to warn you wife that she’s about to start living with an ‘energetic’ ninteen year old for a while…

good luck!

Tren is a very potent drug and IMO should be reserved for advanced users only…I agree that if you’re going to do your first cycle then going all out is definitely the way to go…I would keep the test in there as a base of 500mg/wk and add deca to it at 400mg/wk…With your age, this should make your joints feel like you were 20 again…run dianabol at 20mg ed for the first 6 weeks and run the test (assuming it’s cyp or enan) for 10 weeks and the deca for 9 weeks.

MK

I was reading some of Bill Roberts’ stuff, and he says that tren would be ok for a first-timer @ 50mg/day.

So if I go off of what Roberts says - then I would do 500mg test/week and 50mg tren ed.

That’s kind of what I have in mind right now - and do like an eight week cycle.

If I go with test prop I will get optimum plasma levels quicker, but how long does it stay in my system? When would I start clomid, or novaldex?

I’m still not understanding the reasoning behind using an oral with this stack , or using deca,- I’m not questioning doing it - I just can’t find out why it’s done.

I’m pretty much just thinking out loud here - so if you feel compelled to chime in by all means do so - but please spare me the ‘do more research’ bit - my head is already about to explode.

Or would I go eod with the tren instead of ed?

Is there a good place to look to figure out frontloading? I know it has to do with the half life, but there doesn’t seem to be much of a consensus on how to determine front load quantities.

Once again - I’m just trying to get some of this out of my head before I have a grand mal.

Simply put, frontloading means double-dosing your chemicals in the first week of your cycle that you would normally take week after week throughout your cycle.

For example, if your cycle consisted of 500mg of Test per week, then you would frontload 1000mg in the first week alone. Again, if your cycle meant that you planned on doing 400mg of Deca per week, then do 800mg in the first week.

This only applies to chemicals with long half-lives (the esters attached to them). I would normally frontload Cypionate or Enanthate, but I wouldn’t bother with Propionate (when comparing Tests). Good luck.

Rain, I did a couple of stacks when I was thirty two. Believe it or not the guy who ran the supplement store I shopped at was my connect. He started me off on protein and creatine in 96, MAG-10 and TRIBEX in 99, and finally the darkside in 02.

When I first started going there I asked him about the juice and he acted like he knew nothing about it. By 02 he was putting together a stack for me. Anyway the last cycle I did was Tren, test, and EQ. I very much liked the results from it, but what I do remember most is how I felt post cycle when I started the clomid.

It was a pretty depressing, I had never felt that down in the dumps before. That is the one caution I would recommend watching for. Other then that tear it up at the gym and eat like a horse for some impressive results if you do it!

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Rain, I did a couple of stacks when I was thirty two. Believe it or not the guy who ran the supplement store I shopped at was my connect. He started me off on protein and creatine in 96, MAG-10 and TRIBEX in 99, and finally the darkside in 02.

When I first started going there I asked him about the juice and he acted like he knew nothing about it. By 02 he was putting together a stack for me. Anyway the last cycle I did was Tren, test, and EQ. I very much liked the results from it, but what I do remember most is how I felt post cycle when I started the clomid.

It was a pretty depressing, I had never felt that down in the dumps before. That is the one caution I would recommend watching for. Other then that tear it up at the gym and eat like a horse for some impressive results if you do it![/quote]

I would think that your depression would definately be clomid related. I have used clomid several times and every time I have I have felt overly emotional and have noticable mood swings.

When coming off and using nothing but Alpha Male, I have been fine.

For some people clomid really affects them, in a depressing, emotional, unhappy way.

I need to apologize to you guys down here. After a couple of weeks of actually researching (reading) and keeping my mouth shut, It’s amazing how silly some of my questions were.

With that said - I think I have come up with my first cycle. It’s just a two drug stack, but it is a first cycle.

Stats: 5’10"
206 lbs.
BF: 10-12%
Age: 40

Goals: To hit 250 and sub 10% BF. I know that’s not possible on a single cycle, or several for that matter - but that is my ultimate goal.

The Cycle:
8 weeks 100mg test prop ed
8 weeks 50mg tren ed
nolva @ 20mg ed throughout

PCT:
Clomid start 3 days after last test injection
Nolva

Critique away.

Looks pretty solid. You could move the prop injections to EOD but if you’re mixing with the tren then don’t worry about it.

You might consider breaking your nolva tabs in half and doing half in the morning and half at night due to it’s half life.

That’s it.

STU

Looks good to me just too much poking for my liking. The only thing that I would change, if you can stan all the poking, is to use ferma or arimidex instead of nolva for during your cycle. If you would like another plan with a little less poking you could up the injection mgs and take down the total amount of drug used and put it to:
w1-8
150mg eod Test prop
75mg eod tren

This would still be enough drug to get you on the right path for where you want to go and it probably will be possible for you to make that goal with a few well planned cycles as long as everything else is in order.
DA

If I go eod on both, would I need to frontload? I’m not scared of needles, but if I can get away with eod instead of ed - that’s a no brainer. I’m just concerned that the short half-lifes would require ed.

One more question - I’ve found a site that sells clomid and nolva(tamoxifen) in oral liquid forms @ 20-30mg/ml. Anyone know if his type of delivery system is any good?