T Nation

Tren, Test, Oral


#1


Hey,
i want to start my next cutting/lean mass cycle in 3 months from now, it will be:
Goals: cut for a photo-shoot, need to be ripped but not competition ripped
Week 1-8 test E 250mgs/week - injecting twice a week Sat-tue(125mgs split)

Week 1-8 Tren around 500mgs/week. not sure if its Tren Ace or Tren E. it depends on the source, but if it is Tren Ace then i will inject ed, and if Tren E then twice a week with the test E

Maybe some HGH 6iu/day evey 2 to 3 days
Week 1-8 Adex 0.5 eod and taper down week 8 until the PCT
Week 1-7 HCG 250 eod

PCT:
start week 10: Nolva 40,40,20,20

my questions is,

1) In a famous post for cortez on Tren Ace and Test prop, he adds Dbol 30mgs/day only on working out days, although he wanted to prepare for a show. so can some one explain how :
Tren and Test work on there own
Tren and Test and Dbol (Dbol 20mgs or 30mgs on work out days)
Tren and Test and Winny (winny 50mgs a day)
Assuming tren is at 500mg/week and test is 250mg/week following a cutting diet (low carb, high prot)

=== how will the LITTLE added estrogen from 20mgs Dbol effect the cycle?


#2

Test 250mg a week is a low dose to add adex. I read winny can cause joint pain, and low-normal estrogen wont add the extra water weight which helps with joint health. Winny supposedly binds to sbhg which would cause more unbound (active) test and tren. Proviron or masteron can also bind to sbgh and lowers estrogen. It's milder than arimidex so there'd be more estrogen.

Either proviron or masteron I think would be a good choice instead of the winstrol and arimidex. Estrogen levels depend on your body's response and your goals, so you could start the cycle with no arimidex, and then gradually up the dose. But, 250mg test is a low dose to be using arimidex with. You could bulk up like normal, and then spend a week or two losing weight by using clen/t3/dnp or peptides.

There are two ways steroids work, through androgenic receptors (AR) and nonandrogenic pathways, non-AR. AR are receptors in your muscle that, when activated cause it to grow. Non-ar growth is through things like increased red blood cell count, protein synthesis, etc.

The idea for using an AR (class I) and non-AR (class II) is that all possible ways of growing are used. It's sort of like using clen+t3, instead of twice as much clen. Tren is AR, dbol is non-AR, test is AR and non-AR.


#3

thanks for your input Lover95...
i'm adding the adex for the Tren not for the Test. In my opinion, or from what i understand, Tren needs and AI more than Test.
".........Trenbolone is also a noted progestin: it binds to the receptor of the female sex hormone progesterone (with about 60% of the actual strength progesterone). In sensitive individuals this can lead to bloat and breast growth worse still, trenbolones active metabolite17beta-trenbolone has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor (PgR) that is actually greater than progesterone itself. An anti-estrogen letrzole or fulvestrant can lower progesterone levels, and combat any progestenic sides. "
Although i think this information is a bit old because letrozole is not an Anti-estrogen, it's an Aromatise Inhibitor. Anyways using an AI which is Adex will fight the progestenic sides.
I'm not saying that i am 100% sure of this scientifically but i think i will work. If i'm doing something wrong i would be happy to learn if anyone has another opinion.
Thanks


#4

Still the question is not answered but let me put this way.
If you preparing for a very small Bodybuilding show, IF ANY OF YOU HAD THE CHOICE TO PICK ONE OUT OF THE FOLLOWING THREE SETUPS,
which one will you pick and why? (HGH in hand 6iu/day)

Setup 1) Tren Ace 500mg/week and Test prop 250mg/week (injecting ed)

Setup 2) Tren Ace 500mg/week and Test prop 250mg/week and Dbol 20mgs or 30mgs on work out days (injecting ed)

Setup 3) Tren Ace 500mg/week and Test prop 250mg/week and Winny 50mgs/day (injecting ed)

following (low carb, high prot) diet

I really want to know the reason behind it and understand it
Thanks again


#5

any one?????


#6

Is this the precontest cycle or the bulking cycle? Obviously you arent going to use dbol in the weeks right before a contest. Same goes for the testosterone.


#7

It does wind up being perfectly accetable, and quite ordinarily done, to use aromatizing steroids right up to a contest. So long as estrogen levels are controlled, their use isn't a problem.

On the question as to whether Winstrol at 50 mg/day or Dianabol at 20 mg on work out days only would be better as additions to the combination mentioned, if there weren't this dose disparity I'd find it a hard question because any fat loss difference may be irrelevant (I don't know) with that amount of trenbolone.

However, as quite different dosages are being involved, I'd expect the much larger amount of Winstrol to quite possibly be more effective and most likely not less effective than the smaller and less frequently used amount of Dianabol.

On the effect of the added estrogen if no estrogen control is used: This will depend on the individual. Some individuals will get gyno simply on 250 mg/week of testosterone. Some will be on the edge of it and even a small addition might make the difference. For others, and more commonly, the addition would be utterly trivial.


#8

BONEZ, first of all thank you for your reply.
and yes this is the precontest cycle
i agree with you that Dbol and Test should be dropped last week not because i should. it's just because i don't have the knowledge on how to control the water caused by both AAS. a good knowledge on how to use diuretics is very important here, but this is really early for me.
THANKS AGAIN


#9

as i mentioned above, i agree with you that the use of aromatizing steroids up to a contest. but estrogen should be controlled and DIURETICS play an important role here. and i have ZERO knowledge on diuretics

my thought on using the 20mgs of Dbol was, if i added a bit of estrogen(Dbol) to the Test & Tren then this will help me retain a bit more muscle than winstrol. i don't want to go higher than 20mgs because i am scared it will add some water, as well as slowing the process of lossing fat

by estrogen control you mean Adex or Letro, am i right?

i THANK YOU for taking the time to reply on this post


#10

Is there a reason why you havent added clen/peptides/etc to the cycle? I wonder if peptides are effective considering the cost, but t3/clen/asprin would help cut weight. I'm also interested in hearing about diuretics even though I'd never use them. I've heard there are tons of drugs used to cut weight precontest.


#11

well Lover95,
Im doing around 500mgs of Tren and 6-8 iu of HGH with cardio and proper diet, on top of that i have a high metabolism. so using t3/clen/asprin in my opinion will be just abusing. If i stick to my plan then i will achieve what i want without them. I know that T3/clen will be amazing with the HGH but i dont really need to be that dry for this contest/photoshoot. i might consider using them if i'm competing in a big show.


#12

Yes. These drugs (antiaromatases) work by actually keeping estradiol levels under control, if properly dosed; whereas Clomid and Nolvadex (SERMs) work by acting themselves as antiestrogens or in some tissues estrogens, but do nothing towards decreasing levels of estradiol.


#13

I was just reading a post called "The HGH Experiment". Amazing info and since i was going to use 6iu of HGH in this cycle, then i will higher my intake of HGH to 8iu(I.V) 3 times a day for 5 months and follow BBB's protocol.

Month 1 -------> Test, Tren, Dbol, HGH (Cutting precontest)
Month 2 -------> Test, Tren, Dbol, HGH (Cutting precontest)
Month 3 first week -------> Tren, HGH (contest time)
Month 3 rest of the month -------> Test, Dbol, HGH (clean bulk)
Month 4 -------> Test, Dbol, HGH (clean bulk)
Month 5 -------> PCT, HGH


#14

i forgot to mention that, i won't be starting at 8iu for the first month. i will start low and progress from there until i reach the desired dose of 8iu.