T Nation

Tren/Test/Mast Shorty

SO instead of hijacking other threads, thought I would throw up my own.

First, background. 6 foot (actually 5’11.5" after years of riding boats and getting pounded - lost a little height), currently 214, 37 y/o. Been lifting since junior year of high school, so about 21 years of consistent training, following different methodologies at different times in my lifting career. For the last 10 years or so have concentrated on power lifting type training with solid cardio due to job requirements. Current best lifts: 495 squat (a little above parallel), 430 deadlift, 330 bench. Using Beyond 531 now, been doing 531 for a year or so, did a full run of Juggernaut then shifted back to 531 (Jugg was too much volume for my liking). Main goal is strength, with a good build as a byproduct. Try to control BF with cardio and not being too stupid with diet. I don’t follow a real strict diet, just try to prioritize protein and minimize sweets and junk (while still indulging occasionally). BF around 12-14% (electronic scale).

AAS usage: First cycle- used leftovers from friends’ cycles to make a stupid short cycle while prepping for my second MMA fight in 1999 (was fighting heavyweight and was being told opponent was 240 when I was at 190 - Japanese rules). Ramped up to 1000mg Sust and 600mg Deca per week over the course of 5 weeks with no AI, then came off with no PCT. I believe the only reason I didn’t completely screw my HPTA was that the longer esters took so long to clear (especially with the amount I was injecting) that it acted as a taper without even meaning to. Got bacne something fierce and was completely bloated for the fight with no gas. Went the distance, but lost decision.

Second cycle (sort of)- started a cycle of primo and anavar, but cut it short for some reason (this was early 2000, so I forget exactly).

After these, I played around with paper stuff once or twice, and did a couple PH cycles a few years ago, nothing too crazy. Did the PH cycles with no support again, but saw decent gains while on with no ill effects. Last one of those was probably 2-3 years ago. Played around with dbol as a pre-workout (experiment, saw no real benefit but my BF got up to 20% according to BodPod testing which makes me think I was seeing some estro sides), also around 2 years ago.

So a couple months ago I ordered some TBol and tried a solo cycle of that for 3 weeks. Was going to do 2 weeks at 40mg, but extended to 3 since the gains were just starting at the 2 week point. Had nolvadex on hand for PCT, but didn’t use any and had no issues. Gained some strength but no real size (4-5 lbs maybe).

Made another order when I found cut stack on sale. Cut stack is 50mg each of tren ace, test prop, and mast prop. I did 1ml injection ED for 12 days, rotating between delts, lats and each glute. Used no AI for most of this since I thought the Mast would take care of that, but about halfway through the second week I was having some issues I felt were from estradiol (after reading some stuff on here). I took SAMe, Vit E, and P5P for prolactin, which seemed to keep it under control. Due to the estradiol issues, I took 1mg per day of Arimidex for days 10 through 15 (was going to stop at 14 and start nolva on 15, but figured an extra day of Adex (as well as letting AAS levels drop a bit more before starting PCT). Started PCT on day 16, 40mg/day of Nolva to start a 2 week 40/20 Nolva run. Strength gain is hard to measure in just two weeks, but this being my first off week following the short cycle, I am still making progress and feeling strong in the gym.

Started cycle at 207, weight peaked at 217, so 10 pounds gained in two weeks. Today was day 19, 4th day of Nolva and I forgot to weigh before I started eating and headed to the gym, but I was still 214 yesterday. Expecting some weight loss, hoping to keep at least a few pounds. This may prove hard, as according to several online max weight calculators, I am near my genetic limit already (normally walk around at 6ish’ 205ish).

Next shorty will be second half of January, debating between staying with the 2 weeker or going to 3. I will do 0.5mg Adex ED along with the same injections, while adding 60mg/day of winstrol (and possibly same dosage of TBol). A search of the site will show that the few people who have talked about 2 weekers and actually ran them promise to keep updating, but never do. I intend to keep a running update of my subsequent 2 weekers, hopefully with more detailed info than just bodyweight increases. I hope to do measurements as well, and maybe skinfold (not to find BF, but just to show local fat gain/loss).

I will say this about the mix I am using: this seemed harsh. My only injectable experience is from 14 years ago, but I don’t recall any pain/soreness from the sust or deca. This time, the injection site would be painful for several days. My original intention was to rotate among a bunch of different sites in order to foster some localized growth (including pecs, tris and possibly bis). However, after the first couple injections, that plan went out the window. First injection was 0.5ml per delt, second day I did same dosage in each VMO (again, for the localized growth). That spot was excruciating, and stayed sore for almost a week. The delt injection the first week didn’t affect my military pressing, but caused me to cut short my front squatting the following day. After that, I stayed with delts, lats (0.5mg each side), and each glute. This worked better, and will be my strategy in the future. Even following this plan, the soreness would stay for at least 2-3 days. It usually wasn’t enough to impact workouts (after the first couple injections), but I did develop some sort of painful knot in my right lat at the end of the second week.

Overall I was happy with this short run, and look forward to trying it again in the future. I have enough for 3-4 more short cycles, but only enough winny and tbol to accompany a couple of those. Currently planning 4-5 weeks between shorties, so this will run me well into the summer or early fall.

You never mentioned why you only want to two a two week injectable cycle. Im sure you know that in a very unorthodox mostly because those drugs are just starting to really kick in about 10 days. Also, i have no idea why you would want to screw up your hormones for such a small benefit. Get at least one more bottle of that cut stack and do like 6 weeks. you dont need to shoot every day and no, you dont get localized growth from it. But cut stack is very legit and results are great, just give it more time.

[quote]dfresh333 wrote:
You never mentioned why you only want to two a two week injectable cycle. Im sure you know that in a very unorthodox mostly because those drugs are just starting to really kick in about 10 days. Also, i have no idea why you would want to screw up your hormones for such a small benefit. Get at least one more bottle of that cut stack and do like 6 weeks. you dont need to shoot every day and no, you dont get localized growth from it. But cut stack is very legit and results are great, just give it more time.[/quote]

It’s not unheard of. There was a time shorties were getting lots of tries. They were promoted by a well respected individual…not just some bro. Look up short cycle theory and bill roberts. It works, obviously. It also is designed to minimize suppression…not screw up hormones. Read the extensive amount of theory/info and real world results about 2 weekers. It isnt as agressive or effective as long cycles…but it works. Especially for people who have more modest goals and care about long term htpa health.

Oh…and tren ace should be every day…the props you can get away with pinning eod…but ed is better. The OP did it right

dfresh- You are looking at it as one 2 week cycle. This was the first in a series of 2-on/4-5 off short cycles. One of the major issues with longer cycles is that if you are attempting to keep your HTPA and lipids healthy and somewhere near normal, then you have to take at least as much time off as you did on during the cycle before doing another.

This is where it becomes so difficult to retain gains, unless you started well below your genetic limit. By doing several short cycles in a series, you are able to hit it good, reap some benefit, then get off and recover before you are completely shut down. A few weeks allowing your body to normalize (during which you will of course lose some of your gains but hopefully not all if done correctly), and then back on.

Using an arbitrary 2on/4off (allows for 2 week PCT and 2 weeks of no hormones whatsoever), this is a 6 week cycle which can be repeated, covering several months. You spend more time off than on, but your body still gains some benefit during the initial off weeks (according to my reading). Lipid profiles spend less time out of whack (which is unavoidable in any cycle), so the return to proper health is quicker and easier.

HPTA suppression is less and shorter, allowing for rapid recovery (again, if done correctly). I just finished my first week of PCT following the first 2 weeker, and felt just as strong in the gym as I did during the short blast.

Basically, in reading and researching prior to jumping back in (and in an effort to do it right), I came across the 2 week theory from Bill Roberts and others (can’t say I agree with Nelson Montana’s plan - 2-3 weeks using long ester injectables? Doesn’t make sense to me). The benefits of this approach were more in line with what I was hoping to accomplish than doing the long 8+ week cycles.

While I could probably get away with it, a gain of 20-30 pounds in a couple months would garner some attention. I am already decent size, so this would throw a spotlight on me and require basically a new wardrobe. Less time on means easier recovery and PCT, less issue with lipids, etc. Small, gradual gains over time but still above and beyond what I could do naturally. This is why I am going this route.

The dearth of information on this subject(aside from one or two articles by Bill Roberts and a few responses on these forums by the same) is why I started this thread, and why I plan on logging my next few cycles with as much info and detail as I can muster. I may be able to arrange a dexa scan, but it would be a couple weeks prior to starting. I may also be able to do another one afterward, but they may question if I come in too many times (we have one at work).

Also, from what research I have done (juice correct me if I am totally wrong) you can get away with pinning tren ace EOD, especially when it is in combo with other gear, but the point of a shorty is to get in, hit it hard, and get out. So that is why I went with ED.

Tren ace CAN be eod…but this is where some folks will see negative sides from fluctuating blood levels. Every day is best. Keep up the log on your progress.

I felt pretty good overall pinning ED, a little lethargy but I read on here that can happen with some trens (depending on source). Since I didn’t use an AI last time, using adex next one will hopefully help with that. Like I said above, I will definitely add winny, and might add tbol (I liked the gym aggression I felt during my 3 week tbol only run).

So today is the first day after PCT (2 week 40/20 nolva). Started cycle at 207, peaked at 217. Dropped as low as 210 midway through second week of PCT, then gained back up to 215 and today was 213.5. My eating probably had more to do with that, given the holiday and all. I’ll be on my own for my next 2 weeker (away from family), so it will be easier to dial in my diet - I always lean out while I am gone since I eat what I want instead of what the wife cooks. That sounded bad - she doesn’t cook shitty, just keeps more carb sources around than I do on my own.

Ordered some deprenyl as well, hoping to try it with my cycle. Read somewhere its dopamine effects help with prolactin without the sides of caber and bromo. I’ll be away from the wife, so if my libido takes a hit that won’t be a bad thing (might help me stay out of trouble). Just want to prevent anything which will be difficult to repair. Libido took a small hit during this PCT, reading that is normal? Would prefer to avoid it, but its coming back so no biggy. I’m 37 and (prior to this cycle and PCT) still had the libido of an 18 year old. My wife knows what I’m doing, so she is at least understanding - I think she’s been grateful for the break honestly.