T Nation

Tren, Prop, Winny Diet Advice


#1

I'm looking for a bit of advice from any of you guys who've done a similar cycle, or have some ideas for me on diet for this cycle.

I'm looking at doing Tren 75mg/d, Prop 100mg/d, Winny tabs 50mg/d. for 6 weeks on, 6 off, 6 on.

I'm 180lbs, 12% BF. I'm a bit soft at the moment (not doing much cardio), I'm looking to build some good quality size while dropping some BF. My diet is really good. I'm just wondering if I should realy crank up my total cals, or just my protein?

I hear Tren really increases the appetite quite a bit.

Any advice, or thoughts on the subject are apreciated.


#2

what's your diet like? without a general Idea of what you are eating it's hard for us to say you need more protien,carbs,or fat. give me some more specific info on goals, diet ect, you'll get more responses.


#3

Hey, Gathcity. I am going to have to jump on your post since I was going post a similar question ... hope you don't mind.

I am thinking about a tren/winny cycle in the near future and have a ton of questions (and I don't have any test in with the cycle due to a tight budget ... actually going to wip the tren up myself). Hopefully we both can learn something. Sorry in advance for the long post and many questions. I was doing the leg work on my own and saw the post so figured I would jump in and avoid repetition. Ok, here it goes.

First, what is the final decision on tren, is it a progestin? I have read both views and know that it is an argument in itself (seems that it would be progestenic since it is structurally similar to nanadrolone), but if anyone has some good resources, let us know. (I feel that it would be and most questions following are related to the prog. sides.)

Second, I have read that the use of letrozole or fulvestrant can eliminate the (possible) progestenic sides. I understand how fulvestrant can help- literature states that it down-regulates both estrogen and progesterone repectors without any agonist (activating) and only antagonist (binding, but not activating) effects. What is the word on letrozole? I read that is it only an AI.

Third, also read that since tren is a 19-nor that will increase prolactin. HOW? I don't understand the mechanism of this. Here is what I do know: The hypothalmus/pituitary down-regulate prolactin production with dopamine. In women, elevated estrogen levels will interfer (and I use this loosely) with dopamine and up-regulate prolactin production.

BUT, the presence of progesterone halts any lactation. SO HOW DOES A PROGESTIN INCREASE PROLACTIN PRODUCTION? I also know that the use of bromocriptine (which up-regulates dopamine) will stop any prolactin production.

Fourth, we all read that winny is a suspected progesterone receptor antagonist. I have read studies that state that it does bind to the progesterone receptor, but I don't know how effective it is when competing with a strong progesterone binder like tren possibly is. So is running winny with tren enough to curb prog. sides? Is the use of fulvestrant and bromocriptine even justified if using winny?

Fifth, how many of you guys have drunk winny? It is a water based suspension and can be drunk. Though injection is preferred, the thought of the everyday injections with tren/winny is not sitting well with me. Gathcity is using prop as well, so he is in the same situation. Is drinking any different than the pills? And do any have any suggestions on how to handle the frequent injections?

Lastly, neither tren nor winny aromatize. However, shutdown will occur (due to tren's strong AR binding). How does this change PCT? Obvioulsy, anti-E or AI is not necessary. But shouldn't nolvadex still be used for HPTA recovery?
All and any help/experiences are appreciated. Thanks


#4

No, I don't mind you jumping in. I can't help you any of those questions though.

Sasquatch:

My looks a bit like this

Pro 260g = 1040 cals (40%)
Carbs 210g = 840 cals (32%)
Fat 80g = 720 cals (28%)

Give, or take here and there obviously

A basic day of eating looks like this:

Breakfast: (7am)
4 whole eggs
2 pieces toast
Slice of ham
1 glass OJ
Tribulus

Snack: (10am)
Protein shake 25g
small bag of trail mix (peanuts, raisens, dried fruit)
Plum
Multi Vitamin, extra E, C, B's

Lunch: (12pm)
Chicken, steak, or pork chop (Whatever I cooked extra of for dinner the night before)
Vegies
Glass of milk

Snack: (2pm)
Protein shake

Home from school snack: (4pm)
1 Oatmeal

Preworkout: (5pm)
Protein shake
Ephedra
Cafffeine
Kre-alkalyn

During workout:
Branched chain aminos

Postworkout: (6:30pm)
Protein shake
Glutamine
Taurine
Berry Splash

30mins later: (7pm)
Sphegettii
2 peices of whole wheat bread
1 glass of milk

1hr later: (8pm)
Protein Shake
Multi vitamin

Dinner: (9:30pm)
Chicken, steak, or pork chops
vegies
1 galss of milk

Snack: (10pm)
Green Tea
Fiber Cookies

Before bed: (11pm)
Cottage cheese, or casein shake w/ milk

This isn't really a diet, I have just slowly added things over the years to get to this point.

I try to get a lot of nutrition in after my workout, based on some of the good research to support the 2 hour anabolic window that occurs post workout.

Any advice is appreciated


#5

well, looks like this one is going to get lost.
Gathcity- your diet looks pretty good. You have some good whole foods in there. I personally don't like the bread and pasta choices ... especially the first meal after workout with no protein. But that's just me. (I eat wheat bread with my tuna).

I wouldn't crank up the calories too much during your cycle. You won't have a lot of estrogen working in your anabolic favor where a lot of calories will help. Maybe increase a little, 500-1000 at first and guage your gains as they go.

I am not sure what is acceptable for you in terms of muscle gain and body comp. Are you supplementing with flax, fish oils, or CLA? Maybe take a look at the "carb cycling codex" article to give you some ideas about how to shuffle all your carbs into the morning. I think that will help you with your body comp change without restricting calories.

Hope this helps some.


#6

boost the calories. no less than 3000. probably will take more to see good gains. if you are looking to get lean get rid of anything that has alot of sugar. I dont drink any juices, or sodas. only liquid calories for me are protein shakes. definitely get an efa in there, like flax or fish oils.

you will need to figure out your own diet needs to see what will work for you, this should be done before you start your cycle. gaining weight for me takes 3500 plus cal. the cleaner your diet the cleaner the gains should be. thats my experience at least. good luck bro


#7

Thanks for the reply guys. Some good advice. I'll be sure to check out that article too.

I was thinking about adding a weight gainer shake into my diet. Somewhere around my workout, I guess. 500-1000 cals. See how I feel with that.

I do take CLA and some salmon oil. I forgot to mention it. The salmon oil I take throughout the day, the CLA I take first thing in the morning.

Some research published by the Life Extension Foundation years ago suggested taking 4 g of CLA on an empty stomach, 30 mins before your first meal to maximize effeciency. I've just always stuck with that approach.

The sugar: I don't have a sweet tooth, so it's usually not a problem to avoid. It is difficult to avoid in some areas though, I guess.

I'll hopefully be ready to start this cycle after New Year's, so I will probably keep it updated for anyone who's interested. This is also a good way to keep a journal.

Thanks for help!


#8

Diet looks decent. IF I'am not mistaken you're trying to maybe gain a little but mostly harden up right? I would keep my carbs the same and up my protien and efa's works everytime for me when doing a cutter. And by keeping in the carbs I still have decent energy....mmmmmmmmmm juice.