Tren & Progesterone Receptor Activation

Pharma / TRT
21

It would be unprecedented, so far as I know. The genetic sequence of androgen and progesterone (among other) receptors have been studied in man and many animals, and the sequence of the binding area is found to be identical. In other words, mutations there have not survived.

These hormones work the same way in man and many animals, definitely including the livestock species. If there is an exception I don’t believe it’s been found.

The argument “it’s progestagenic!” comes from:

  1. Amateur attempts to deduce things from not only unproven, but provably wrong structure activity relationship theories. “It’s a 19-nor! So it must be progestagnic!”

  2. Seeing a problem and then just announcing that the reason is such and such.

The thing that is really sad about this is that at least part of the claims are SO subject to test. Geez, just have prolactin levels tested, from at least one person using trenbolone from Fina or otherwise definitely proven to be trenbolone! Is that too much to ask of these authors?

And then,

  1. Making conclusions from the veterinary literature that are not at all being said there and aren’t warranted from it, and sometimes actually in complete contradiction. Mostly, I would imagine, because many of these authors don’t even read the abstract, but saw a given reference listed at the end of some article or book by some author bb’ing steroid author, and decided to copy it for their own similar or extended claim.

So as not to criticize anyone currently in the field: For example, does anyone really imagine Bill Phillips pored through the scientific literature before writing Anabolic Reference Guide, 6th Edition? (By the way, there were no editions 1-5.)

23

I don’t know if it’s just me, or actually it would be a popular option if they did it – compared to sitting there despondently on the bench waiting, interminably, for time to pass.

25

Bill,

Are comments regarding the potential problems of taking tamoxifen whilst using tren unfounded? (aggravation of gyno, that is).

I have taken the two drugs concurrently myself having reasoned that the above is nonsense, and my actual experience suggests that this problem has no basis in reality. Still, I’d like to have this confirmed/explained by someone with a great deal more experience than I, if I may.

Thanks for everything you do around here btw Bill, I’m often amazed by your patience!

26

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I don’t know if it’s just me, or actually it would be a popular option if they did it – compared to sitting there despondently on the bench waiting, interminably, for time to pass.

Well you see, I have an understanding with my fiancee. We don’t go shopping together, simple as that.

Ok so there are exceptions. For example I want to buy a pair of glasses (not that I have poor eyesight, but I want to create a certain impression at my next court appearance) and I want her opinion on them as a woman. I already have the pair picked out (I went shopping by myself) so we’ll go into the opticians on saturday morning for 10 minutes and then that will be it.

If she wants to buy clothes, then she goes into the city (where I WILL NOT go if humanly possible) and buys what she wants. Then she comes home and parades them to me. If I say “Hmmm, looks, OK” she’ll take an item back. If I say “Nice!” then she keeps it, lol.

It’s a great system, but then we are not your ordinary couple I suppose. In fact we often go to the cinema together, but watch seperate films.

A woman who wasted my time with interminable shopping trips would be a woman from my past, not my future, lol.

I’m not the most sociable of animals.

BBB[/quote]

I did wind up quitting shopping with her.

I’d had enough after three occasions in a row where I needed to go buy something – in places where she needed nothing – and she decided she’d rather wait in the car.

Good enough for her to not shop with me, good enough for me to not shop with her.

Big improvement.

(And not the cause of her now being ex.)

27

Thanks, Dave!

I can’t imagine any scenario where tamoxifen would aggravate gyno.

By the way, on this trenbolone thing, I had a possible-alternate-explanation thought today. I have no idea what degree of probability ought to be assigned to it.

Namely, trenbolone is very prone to oxidation. You can see this even with the pellets still in their packaging. A nice new cartridge, with expiration date long away, from a good supplier has very light colored pellets. Not much different than the color of paper (though not bright white paper.)

On the other hand, Finaplix from a poorer supplier may be yellow. It will actually turn brown if left at room temperature for extended time.

Years ago I used to actually purify the stuff by recrystallization. The source I had was providing yellowish pellets. With successive recrystallizations I could get the crystals a pretty light yellow, though still always yellow. On the other hand early on on in the process I’d have more strongly colored stuff.

What point am I leading to?

The stuff I have used has always been low in any oxidized content. Additionally when consulting with anyone who was making their own TA, I generally made a point of saying to get new stuff if the pellets were more than moderately yellow.

But what of folk buying powders?

Has this stuff been refrigerated since manufacture? I’ll bet not!

Almost undoubtedly these products contain substantial amounts of oxidized trenbolone, in varying degrees.

So there’s that to contend with as well as the notoriously high rate of non-Finaplix trenbolone products not being what they’re supposed to be.

Might it be that oxidized trenbolone has some awful activity such as promoting gyno?

I have no idea. Certainly there hasn’t been scientific study of that. The type of reaction occurring does not occur biologically. So taking pharmaceutical or exposed-to-air-but-refrigerated-and-fresh veterinary trenbolone may be a different matter than taking something made from powder that has been exposed to air and unrefrigerated.

Hypothetically.

It also certainly could be that oxidized trenbolone has no activity of any kind. It’s just an unknown.

28

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Bill,

Are comments regarding the potential problems of taking tamoxifen whilst using tren unfounded? (aggravation of gyno, that is).

I have taken the two drugs concurrently myself having reasoned that the above is nonsense, and my actual experience suggests that this problem has no basis in reality. Still, I’d like to have this confirmed/explained by someone with a great deal more experience than I, if I may.

Thanks for everything you do around here btw Bill, I’m often amazed by your patience![/quote]

Ok, so Bill I knocked some sense into myself by sleeping quite a bit more (finally!!) and I completely agree with everything you’ve said. I had my brain turned off and my head up my ass–but I think the thing is that I assumed that the tren these poor blokes had was in fact legit, and not “salted”, whether from powder or fina pellets or otherwise. From that assumed premise I then figured that anecdotal evidence might be useful and something must be pointing in the direction of prolactin.

Ok, so now that I’m not a wanker anymore and took time to pull due diligence I’m ashamed about my prior half-assed opinion.

I would still submit that it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that in some super sensitive individuals tren’s binding to the PR can actually trigger some activity… as Bill said, you can’t prove a negative. But I would put it up as supremely unlikely in the absence of lit evidence that suggests that there is any transcriptional activity brought on by tren’s binding to the PR (and there isn’t any that I looked at).

As far as this question goes, I think it’s unfounded. If the tren is real, then there should be no progestin like activity whatsoever, making the entire concern moot.

29

At first the possibility of a powdered product being “salted” with trenbolone from Finaplix pellets didn’t follow to me as why it would be a problem (if the pellets were fresh and handled properly, anyway) but then it occurred: what a horror it would be if the supplier used Finaplix S!

You know there have to be people out there that would figure, given that one product (H) is for heifers and the other (S) is for steers, surely they want the one for steers…

Which, however, is estrogen-loaded.

30

.

and is estrogen agonist

.

31

You bumped a 9 yr old thread?