T Nation

Tren E vs Tren A and Alternatives


#1

Ok so i am in a bit of a dilemma. I have a vast history of cycles and although i know a ton of info you can never know everything. So my situation is this.

Does anyone know if mood swings are the same using enanthate vs acetate? I am wondering if the enanthate ester will help with mood swings due to more stable levels in the bloodstream?

I unfortunately have promised my gf i wont use tren again as i get really (lets just say) impossible to be around. She is willing to let me run it again however i am not so confident that i will be able to control my outbursts (so to speak). My dilemma is i have experimented with quite a few substances but none give the results even with clean diet and hard training the tren provides in the same period of time. i would prob be willing to go with a longer ester if that may help but otherwise may not. My only other option is to find a suitable substance in its place.

im currently running prop (150mg eod), winny (50 day) and clen (120mg)and really want to throw the tren in there (leaning out is the goal). So if there is no difference is there anything i could take to combat the mood swings? I have heard b vits could help but i dont understand how. Or what other substances can be comparable? I am pretty sure masteron will prob come up and altho i can get it i am not a low enough bf percentage to reap the benefits. Tren usually fixes all that but....

So am i to lay to rest my tren love (at least while in a relationship lol) or do i have other options? For the record i have no mood problems on anything else. Any help would be much appreciated.


#2

How often are you injecting the Tren Ace?


#3

How often do you pin when using tren ace? If it is less often than ED, maybe a lesser amount daily would mitigate sides.

Edit: Bonez, you beat me to it :wink:


#4

When i used it it was eod (75 to 100). But havent used it for over a year now due to gf rules lol.


#5

No matter if you use E or A, shoot it daily. This will reduce that side effect as much as is possible BUT if you are anything like me, and it sounds like you are, then you will find that it is still not enough control.

Deca and Test actually seems to give similar results to Tren and Test. It is a little harder to keep as lean - but if you eat well then the end result looks very similar IME… fyi.


#6

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#7

But these wouldn’t help too much if the issue is simply the fairly common negative psychological reactions to a very high androgen level resulting in anti-social behaviour would they? (I hate the incorrect and inaccurate term ‘roid rage’ although technically it’s what i mean…).

I know where you come from though - supplying or supplementing some of the pre-cursors and pro-hormones that are often created in the process of making Test - which have actions and give reactions themselves…


#8

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Run some HCG or DHEA to improve mood.

BBB[/quote]

Really!!! How does that work?


#9

@ Brook

I have read some reports and experiences of deca being used for lean mass. I only ever used it to bulk and more recently joints (last cycle anyway). Will look into that but the spider web veins and substanial reduction of bopdy fat in a matter of weeks is hard to compete with lol.

Although im waiting for a response from BBB im kinda curious is you tried anything like that for the mood swings. Mine i dont feel are too too bad (imo lol) but more of the “i cant seem to keep my comments or honesty to myself” (at least in the darkness of my mind)lol. Have a real hard time biting my tongue when on tren (and of course over reacting). Luckily i dont smash the shit outta anything lol. More of a case of tolerating stupidity is the issue haha.

BUT god do i love tren and if there is a way… And if not the so be it. More test please lol


#10

And yes my spelling, grammar and everything else sucks but at work i have to type fast lmao


#11

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#12

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brook wrote:
But these wouldn’t help too much if the issue is simply the fairly common negative psychological reactions to a very high androgen level resulting in anti-social behaviour would they? (I hate the incorrect and inaccurate term ‘roid rage’ although technically it’s what i mean…).

I know where you come from though - supplying or supplementing some of the pre-cursors and pro-hormones that are often created in the process of making Test - which have actions and give reactions themselves…

But you have to ask “are the ‘fairly common’ negative psychological reactions actually caused by inhibition of the testes, resulting in loss of pregnenolone production which converts to DHEA and other neurosteroids that regulate mood?”

I wonder how many AAS users would benefit from DHEA (or HCG) supplementation during cycle and also post-cycle. Quite a few, I would wager.

In other words, is it the high androgens or the low ‘androgens’ (i.e neurosteroids) that actually cause the issues? Probably a combination of the two, in truth. Also the specific androgens used and in what combination.

However, my mood improves when test is supraphysiological, but worsens when I include test - normally. This time I have been running low test (300mg/wk) and high tren (650mg/wk) and things have been much better until the last few days, when I have begun thinking about HCG supplementation in an attempt to improve mood.

So in my case, I feel it is more the lack of ‘androgens’ rather than the excess of AAS that will be the ticket to improved mood.

BBB
[/quote]

Interesting chain of thought and definitely makes sense. So, what your saying is in your case test messes with your mood?? is that right? Just trying to work it all out here, cause i am fine on test but when tren is thrown in to the mix then oops… Of course i would be willing to throw in some hcg or dhea to put it to the test for me.

What sorta dosages are you talking about?


#13

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brook wrote:
But these wouldn’t help too much if the issue is simply the fairly common negative psychological reactions to a very high androgen level resulting in anti-social behaviour would they? (I hate the incorrect and inaccurate term ‘roid rage’ although technically it’s what i mean…).

I know where you come from though - supplying or supplementing some of the pre-cursors and pro-hormones that are often created in the process of making Test - which have actions and give reactions themselves…

But you have to ask “are the ‘fairly common’ negative psychological reactions actually caused by inhibition of the testes, resulting in loss of pregnenolone production which converts to DHEA and other neurosteroids that regulate mood?”

I wonder how many AAS users would benefit from DHEA (or HCG) supplementation during cycle and also post-cycle. Quite a few, I would wager.

In other words, is it the high androgens or the low ‘androgens’ (i.e neurosteroids) that actually cause the issues? Probably a combination of the two, in truth. Also the specific androgens used and in what combination.

However, my mood improves when test is supraphysiological, but worsens when I include test - normally. This time I have been running low test (300mg/wk) and high tren (650mg/wk) and things have been much better until the last few days, when I have begun thinking about HCG supplementation in an attempt to improve mood.

So in my case, I feel it is more the lack of ‘androgens’ rather than the excess of AAS that will be the ticket to improved mood.

BBB
[/quote]

Yeah - i understood what you were suggesting HCG or DHEA for… and i agree that it is likely both - plus some other shit that we have yet to comprehend… but -

For me at least - it really is as simple as dose dependant of any AAS i have used and not suppression or a special combination or protocol of drugs (that said i will definitely be adding DHEA for a while to see how that goes and then HCG while paying attention to that potential benefit again).

So when i use Test or Tren or Mast (as the three main offenders), my attitude worsens the more i use (dose) - and it is fine/normal (from memory!) when i use 1-200mg of Test a week… suggesting it isnt the suppression of the hormones that are needed/created during the synthesis of testosterone.
If i use 250test and 300mg Mast, i do harden up psychologically, but nothing anti-social.

When i supersize my doses to full bulking ranges - then i (or others around me) suffer.

But it is ‘just me’ and i am not suggesting this is the rule or the exception. As you said it is likely a complex mix of the differing factors.

As i mentioned, i will be getting in some DHEA in the hope of off-setting some of the angst - it is a very clever idea :wink:


#14

OP,

I would suggest you read up on both HCG and DHEA before you use them. Generally 100-200iu of HCG per day is the recommended dose. DHEA recommendations vary greatly. There is a ton of information on the internet about it. HCG and DHEA can and will raise estrogen levels, so like I said, read up first.


#15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Run some HCG or DHEA to improve mood.

BBB[/quote]

Really!!! How does that work?


#16

You can use a powerful opoid to mask/counter some of “tren rage” . Such as Nubain 2-3 times daily, sub-c injection. IF you are willing to go this far.

Otherwise masteron can be an alternative. masteron + hgh for additional fat loss.


#17

Not for me. I use a large dose of Methadone daily, and i found that it actually made me more pissy than nothing at all. This is true for me on all forms of opiate actually.

Maybe i am just a cunt… :wink:


#18

Also (this is not personal Meph, i promise!) i would suggest that Masteron is going to be almost as problematic as Tren.

I recently read on another forum that one user had ditched Tren due to it’s suppressive effects in favour of either 700mg Masteron - which at that dose will also aggravate aggressive tendencies - or interestingly 700mg/wk Var.
He suggested that when this is run alongside Test, the results are equal or even slightly better than a Test and (350mg) Tren stack… not sure how true this is for him or anyone else - but as an (expensive) option it is there… :wink:


#19

I dont think i would want to go as far as opiates to counter balance mood. Just seems like too much. I am reasearching the dhea way though. I have considered masteron many many times but everywhere i go it seems i should at least be under 9% bf. im at 12% right now so prob a waste of money. although i have also heard that the claim of being 9% is not accurate so i will look into more info on that. And var … I couldnt really afford to run it effectiveley for any length of time and at the dosages mentioned not a hope (without a bank loan haha).

HCG i have used for other reasons but without any real info or reference on that dhea seems like it may be a better choice. It may actuslly be the case that i will become as Brook said “a cunt” anyway. I just dont know… I love the shit but… Maybe one for the road lol.


#20

Op,

I would go with a masteron substitution over the tren. Ime, while mast doesn’t have the re-partitioning effects like tren, (nothing does), it still provides some viable hardening of the muscle and vascularity increase. Again, ime, it does this with not nearly the same “harshness” of tren on mood, aggression, and bp increases, which ime go hand in hand really.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.