Tren + Androgel or Testin for the first time
I just started taking 19 Nor Tren from Element Nutrition (19-norandrosta 4,9 diene 3, 17 dione) 3 pills a day = 120 Mg a day, and using 1 Tube of Testim in the morning, and 4 Pumps of Androgel at night. I am 44 y/o 5’11" weighing 200# (when I started a week ago), 22 BF%.
I am running blood tests every 2 months, and my doctor is pretty open minded. My Test Total came in at 500 (before the cycle), and my IGF-1 is within normal levels so the insurance will not cover for my Human Growth Hormone replacement; therefore I am not doing HGH. Nutrition is good + Creatine, NO, Beta Alanine, etc.
In the first week on the stack I went from 200# to 197# in a few days, and felt/look leaner, now 7 days later I am at 202# and feel/look fuller.
My questions are:
Would it be a good idea to now add, say 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyletioallocholanol at 2 pils x day = 40 mg total per day?
The Tren (19-norandrosta 4,9 diene 3, 17 dione) I am currently taking does not contain “Milk Thistle”, is this something I would need with the stack I have been taking, or just something I can add when/if I start taking the 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyletioallocholanol
What is recommended to maintain the liver as clean/protected as possible during a pro-hormone cycle? I hear of “Liver Cleanse” by Champion Nutrition, and “Liver Care” from Himalaya.
My experience with Pro-Hormones is limited so thank you in advance for your advice.
I have never heard of anyone doing a cycle of Androgel or Testim. Typically what happens is that if you are one of the few who can absorb the transdermals properly, you will achieve high-normal levels of T at best. For all too many, the gels simply shut down your HPTA, thus shutting down your normal T production and leaving you at a lower level that when you started.
I would think it would be very difficult to apply enough gel to get AAS levels of T in your system, and if you did, the E2 conversion and DHT conversion that accompany transdermals would not make it the best option.
How did you get a doctor to prescribe both Androgel and Testim?
[quote]pcdude wrote:
I have never heard of anyone doing a cycle of Androgel or Testim. Typically what happens is that if you are one of the few who can absorb the transdermals properly, you will achieve high-normal levels of T at best. For all too many, the gels simply shut down your HPTA, thus shutting down your normal T production and leaving you at a lower level that when you started.
I would think it would be very difficult to apply enough gel to get AAS levels of T in your system, and if you did, the E2 conversion and DHT conversion that accompany transdermals would not make it the best option.
How did you get a doctor to prescribe both Androgel and Testim?[/quote]
ANother possiblily is to use the T gel as replacement while being shutdown while using anabolics.
I dont think this particular cycle is a good idea in the least bit but transdermal gel is better than nothing if someone wants to run a long cycle and cant find injectible T for whatever odd reason.
I don’t know if these are fake or not, I guess we all run the risk of trying something to find out at best that it is not working or the results are minimal. I do here a bit of chatter about Tren, that is why I when and got it from my supplier to try it. It was a free sample bottle to promote it to my clients. I am a nutritionist.
pcdude.
I have to confess that I have to doctors, and neither one knows about the existence of the other one. I took both lab tests within 2 months and when back to them individually and asked them for Testin and Androgel respectively, that’s how I have quite a stash of it. I have seen an increase and libido, since I was borderline 174 in my test results before the creams.
BONEZ217,
Thanks for your input. I do have access real AAS, but have been a bit hesitant to try it until I exhaust the pro-hormones option, plus I am going to the police academy in January and did not want any complications as far as drug testing goes.
All,
In your opinion, will a real AAS cycle, say Deca and T (both available to me) be better health wise for someone like me, than the pro-hormone route?
[quote]Comandante wrote:
In your opinion, will a real AAS cycle, say Deca and T (both available to me) be better health wise for someone like me, than the pro-hormone route?
[/quote]
I would prefer to use AAS. Do not use Deca if you’re going to be drug tested in the near future, the metabolites can be detected as long as a year after you stop administering it. NPP is a better option if you want to use nandrolone.
I don’t know if these are fake or not, I guess we all run the risk of trying something to find out at best that it is not working or the results are minimal. I do here a bit of chatter about Tren, that is why I when and got it from my supplier to try it. It was a free sample bottle to promote it to my clients. I am a nutritionist.
pcdude.
I have to confess that I have to doctors, and neither one knows about the existence of the other one. I took both lab tests within 2 months and when back to them individually and asked them for Testin and Androgel respectively, that’s how I have quite a stash of it. I have seen an increase and libido, since I was borderline 174 in my test results before the creams.
BONEZ217,
Thanks for your input. I do have access real AAS, but have been a bit hesitant to try it until I exhaust the pro-hormones option, plus I am going to the police academy in January and did not want any complications as far as drug testing goes.
All,
In your opinion, will a real AAS cycle, say Deca and T (both available to me) be better health wise for someone like me, than the pro-hormone route?
[/quote]
Deca stays detectable for over a year. Do not use nandrolone if you will be tested.
It isnt difficult to use testosterone WRT to drug testing, especially if you know when the test is. Best bet is to run a basic test cycle now.
My T (total) levels was a 174 ng/dL when I went to the doctors (individually) to get tested and obtain the prescriptions for both Andro and Testin (1 from each doctor).
On 08/15/10 my test results (after being off the creams) was 563 ng/dL, and my IGF I, ECL was at 266 ng/mL, where normal ranges are 50-303. So I got the refill for Androgel since it seems (according to the tests) to be working for me, but I was told that my insurance will not pay for Human Growth Hormone. I was given the option, however, to get a prescription for HGH if I wanted to try it, but I would have to pay for it out of my pocket.
Based on this info, do you think I will still benefit if I stop Androgel and Testin and go with real injectable T ?
If the gels got you to 563, You may want to continue along those lines as it appears that you are absorbing well. You may want to chose one or the other as testosterone is a scheduled drug, and obtaining it from 2 doctors may present legal problems if anyone took the time to check. Not very likely, but records are kept. Having one doctor administer your regimen is preferable as well.
Be sure to get tested for E2 - Estradiol. Levels can rise and cause other issues. An AI may be required.
Advantages of injectable T are less conversion to DHT (versus transdermals), and no worries about transferring to others. Injectable T also has the advantage of being able to get you to a higher total T level than the gels. The main disadvantage is having to stick youself with a needle twice a week for the rest of your life. Injectable T is also much more cost effective if paying OOP as well as for most insurance plans.
Read the stickies on the T-Replacement forum for more information.
Great info, I’ll tell my doctor to test me for E2 and DHT next time. BTW, you are right my insurance caught with me trying to fulfill a prescription for Androgel 1 week and 2 weeks later another one for Testin, even thought in a different paharmacy chain. Now they are making way for the whole month for either one of the other as prescribed.
My strategy was to get the prescriptions and use half of the dosage prescribed for the first 3 months, so the lab test will show lower then expected results, and also so I could stack up in case of emergencies like losing my insurance, etc.
I’ll talk to my doctor to get the injectable better. Thanks
