T Nation

Tren and Winstrol?

after using 2400mgs of tren and 750mg of winstrol for 3 weeks, is it necessary to use clomid post cycle? i plan to begin the winstrol about 10 days after starting the tren. any input?

Three weeks?? Why bother?? Seriously, not to sound rude, but it really isn’t worth your money. Both are short acting, yes, but unless money or supply is an issue, I would really just wait until I could get enough gear to run a 6 or 8 week cycle. Trust me, the first cycle I ever did was an 8 week tren and winny, 75mg tren and 50mg winny ED, and it was the best stack I have ever used (I’ve repeated it three times since then…).
But to answer your question, yes, you will definitely need clomid or novla post cycle. Some HCG may be useful to keep the boys fit and ready, but as you will find on other posts, HCG can actually aromatize in and of itself. My nolva protocol has always been 60mg day1, 40mg day2-8, and 20mg day9-30. You can throw in liquidex or femara while on if you can afford it, but because of winny’s receptor binding properties, you should be ok without. Lata…

I think the appropriate questions to ask yourself is how much did your HPTA shut down while on for the three weeks and what kinds of reactions are going to present themselves as a result of using the two mentioned drugs? clomid would allow for a nice recovery of what shutdown did occur and would prove to keep estrogen inhibited during the lag-time that your test levels were rising again, if say you were shut down enough (which i would doubt)so that estrogen wouldn’t become the dominant hormone present. Tren or Winstrol aren’t really extremely suppressive to the HPTA when used in low enough dosages, but it seems like you will have high enough total androgen levels with the drugs combined to cause a spurt in your negative feedback loop and ultimately some shutdown. so clomid may indeed provide the reaction needed to offset any actions caused during cycle. if progesterone related effects were to become an issue, some people believe tren to act like progesterone if i recall correctly, then the dosages of winstrol that you’re using should combat any of those sides quite nicely, but that’s only if you experience anything to that nature. but in the instance it didn’t help with the progesterone related sides if presented, then the clomid wouldn’t offer any protection. hope i helped, and just out of curiosity what does your daily or weekly protocol look like?

[quote]Outkast81 wrote:

But to answer your question, yes, you will definitely need clomid or novla post cycle. [/quote]

Outkast, why nolva? just to control your endogenous estrogen levels from becoming the dominant hormone in the blood, maybe? i ask this because neither aromatize and nolva wouldn’t help with progesterone sides very effectively, if at all. i understand the use of nolva if you’re adjusting to a great deal of HPTA shutdown and looking to control total estrogen levels while waking your boys. if this is the reason, have you ever put proviron with the nolva for total control, or do you always stick with blocking the receptors only?

I actually have never tried proviron, to be honest. I usually used novla or clomid becuase Tren shuts me down extremely hard, and I fell better using nolva afterwards. I agree though that after three weeks perhaps his HPTA shutdown would not be as bad, but I have always felt that if you are going to experience any shutdown at all, why not do a full six to eight week cycle and get the most out of it?
But I agree with everything chuckd says, I admit that I kinda shot from the hip on that one, based on my experiences alone. I realize that I didn’t really answer his question to the fullest, sorry about that. But I just personally feel that a three week cycle with winny and tren is a waste of money…Lata

I also usually use femara or liquidex on most of my cycles to have total control, but I never needed anything during a tren/winny cycle because I never saw any of the progesterone sides. I always assumed that it was the winny, but I am usually shutdown extremely hard after. I did, however run HCG the first two times that I tried this cycle, with good results. The only reason I have not been including it quite as much of late is because of some new info that I am reading up on…

Did you guys use any test in your tren/winny cycles? I’m not “that guy” that feels that every stack should have test but doesn’t tren make it hard to get it up? Does Winstrol counter that?

I agree with the person that said that you should not waste your time with such a short cycle. Having done both Winny and Treblonoe I can tell you they are more effective at an 8 week cycle. I wouldn’t run it much past 8 weeks though. Both of those are pretty heavy on the Androgen side so throw some Test in or if you’re afraid of test do some EQ.

Now as far as assisting your recovery I would do the following:

HCG @ 500iu every 3 to 4 days during your cycle

If you don’t run Test or EG run Bromo during the cycle and Nolva afterwards. Start with Nolva 3 days after your last AAS dose go 40mcg/day for 14 days and 20mcg/day for the next 14.

I’m assuming this is a cutting cycle so watch your diet.

Winny won’t really counter it no. You will still get finadick. A little bit of test, even only 100-200mg/week should keep you in good shape. I’ve heard also of just using hcg therapy during cycle to maintain your own test production works just as well to keep all your bits and pieces in working order.

The vet prices for brand name oxandrolone in TJ run 70-100$ for 500mgs. Probably double that is what you would pay in the states.

You might be able to find some generic or bootleg Var for less though.

If your only looking to spend around 400$, you should consider a different stack.

Sorry, posted the previous response under the wrong thread.

[quote]Heywood Jablome wrote:
I agree with the person that said that you should not waste your time with such a short cycle. Having done both Winny and Treblonoe I can tell you they are more effective at an 8 week cycle. I wouldn’t run it much past 8 weeks though. Both of those are pretty heavy on the Androgen side so throw some Test in or if you’re afraid of test do some EQ.

Now as far as assisting your recovery I would do the following:

HCG @ 500iu every 3 to 4 days during your cycle

If you don’t run Test or EG run Bromo during the cycle and Nolva afterwards. Start with Nolva 3 days after your last AAS dose go 40mcg/day for 14 days and 20mcg/day for the next 14.

I’m assuming this is a cutting cycle so watch your diet.[/quote]

Boy I wish I had more time on this board because lately some pretty inacurate info has been spreading around!

first off Test a pretty heavy androgen in itself. And secondly I don’t see the point in running eq with tren - particularly in a short cycle - this will realy throw a wrench in recovery plans.

The guy wanted a short cycle. For best success I recomend anavar and winstrol for 3 weeks at a time.

If you can’t do it that way I recomend front loading the tren at 150 mg for the first 4 days of the cycle, then doing 75 mg for the remainder of 2 WEEKS!
concurrently take winstrol at 75 oral or 50 mg injectable daily.
Take this for 3 WEEKS!

reason for this is you don’t want to come off on tren you want it out of your system well before going off because it is very suppressive.

Don’t expect great gains by doing this, but you will get gains, and get harder and leaner provided training and diet is point on.

No point in HCG for this cycle as testicular suppression doesn’t even occur untill the third week on.

As for libido issues TEST is NOT NEEDED! I have been saying this as of late because many are ill informed. Test is not the only option for maintain sexual function while on a trenbolone or nandrolone cycle. Other options are: PROVIRON! MASTERON! or an hcg protocol. P-22