T Nation

Tren Ace 2 Weeker

Just thinking out loud here but wanted to chuck this out there.
Any objections or changes/additions to this cycle?

Day 1-14 Tren Ace 100mg ED
Day 1-14 Dbol 50mg ED
Day 1-14 Winstrol ED
Day 1-14 Adex 0.25mg ED
Day 1,4,7,10,16 hCG 250iu
Day 15-25 Nolva/Clomid 20/50 ED

I understand that there is subjective talk about running Tren without Test but I am replacing the Test with Dbol, most people say you must run an aromatisable steroid with Tren.
I chucked the stanozolol in there as I am already very lean so its effects should be quite pronounced.

I am at ~8% BF, hoping to drop a percent or so while adding some lean mass.
I am just thinking here, so no flaming about ‘you were just shutdown’ etc etc :slight_smile: I understand that I was just shutdown, I have fully recovered now just wondering is anyone would consider this sort of a cycle.

Cheers ladies,
SB

OMG, for realz??? You were just shutdown brah!!!

I’m just kidding. Looks interesting, what made you choose the Dbol over test?

Have you ever done a two weeker before? The more I hear about them the more they appeal

Why would you take a suppressive compound during the clomid/nolva?

Change day 16 to day 12 or 13 for the hcg. That is my only input.

You are already injecting tren, personally I’d either use prop or suspension instead of the dbol. Especially if you want to end up looking leaner. I bloat like I am being inflated on dbol.

If you have issues with being shutdown easily, maybe consider masteron instead of tren.

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
Why would you take a suppressive compound during the clomid/nolva?

Change day 16 to day 12 or 13 for the hcg. That is my only input.

You are already injecting tren, personally I’d either use prop or suspension instead of the dbol. Especially if you want to end up looking leaner. I bloat like I am being inflated on dbol.

If you have issues with being shutdown easily, maybe consider masteron instead of tren. [/quote]

X2 literally everything i was gonna suggest

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
OMG, for realz??? You were just shutdown brah!!!

I’m just kidding. Looks interesting, what made you choose the Dbol over test?

Have you ever done a two weeker before? The more I hear about them the more they appeal[/quote]

Nope never done a two-weeker.
I chose Dbol over test because I cant bare the pain of test prop injections.

SB

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
Why would you take a suppressive compound during the clomid/nolva?

Change day 16 to day 12 or 13 for the hcg. That is my only input.

You are already injecting tren, personally I’d either use prop or suspension instead of the dbol. Especially if you want to end up looking leaner. I bloat like I am being inflated on dbol.

If you have issues with being shutdown easily, maybe consider masteron instead of tren. [/quote]

It is only a day into the PCT, and I put it 2 days after the last androgen dose because from past experiences I have noticed that if I discontinue the hCG too early I end up atrophying in literally a day or two. And I am guesssing that I will still have SOME androgens floating around on day 16.

I would consider masteron however it doesnt compare to Tren in regards to lean muscle gain.
I hate the sides of Tren and I will never be able to tolerate it for 8 weeks like I did before (and shutdown for a year) but I am hoping 14 days of Tren wont have such an impact on my HPTA as 8 weeks will.

Also one thing I was wondering, the point of having the Dbol in there is to normalise oestrogen levels as Tren doesnt aromatise, however I have added in adex aswell which im not sure is the right thing to do as this is counter productive to the goal of the Dbol.
My only defense is that I am running it at such a low dose, it will maybe allow some oestrogen to be present. Any comments on this?

SB

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Just thinking out loud here but wanted to chuck this out there.
Any objections or changes/additions to this cycle?

Day 1-14 Tren Ace 100mg ED
Day 1-14 Dbol 50mg ED
Day 1-14 Winstrol ED
Day 1-14 Adex 0.25mg ED
Day 1,4,7,10,16 hCG 250iu
Day 15-25 Nolva/Clomid 20/50 ED

I understand that there is subjective talk about running Tren without Test but I am replacing the Test with Dbol, most people say you must run an aromatisable steroid with Tren.
I chucked the stanozolol in there as I am already very lean so its effects should be quite pronounced.

I am at ~8% BF, hoping to drop a percent or so while adding some lean mass.
I am just thinking here, so no flaming about ‘you were just shutdown’ etc etc :slight_smile: I understand that I was just shutdown, I have fully recovered now just wondering is anyone would consider this sort of a cycle.

Cheers ladies,
SB[/quote]

Tren and Dbol is a standard shorty Bill used to promote, no need for test in there. Tren/dbol/winny is actually quite potent stacked together and you’ll be pleased as long as you don’t think you’re going to make MAJOR changes to an already advanced physique in 2 weeks. The adex looks okay for that amount of dbol and HCG being used. I would consider pushing back your last HCG shot to day 13…already mentioned by others. PCT looks fine, although be prepared to extend your SERM use past 10 days based on your history of difficult recovery.

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
Why would you take a suppressive compound during the clomid/nolva?

Change day 16 to day 12 or 13 for the hcg. That is my only input.

You are already injecting tren, personally I’d either use prop or suspension instead of the dbol. Especially if you want to end up looking leaner. I bloat like I am being inflated on dbol.

If you have issues with being shutdown easily, maybe consider masteron instead of tren. [/quote]

It is only a day into the PCT, and I put it 2 days after the last androgen dose because from past experiences I have noticed that if I discontinue the hCG too early I end up atrophying in literally a day or two. And I am guesssing that I will still have SOME androgens floating around on day 16.

I would consider masteron however it doesnt compare to Tren in regards to lean muscle gain.
I hate the sides of Tren and I will never be able to tolerate it for 8 weeks like I did before (and shutdown for a year) but I am hoping 14 days of Tren wont have such an impact on my HPTA as 8 weeks will.

Also one thing I was wondering, the point of having the Dbol in there is to normalise oestrogen levels as Tren doesnt aromatise, however I have added in adex aswell which im not sure is the right thing to do as this is counter productive to the goal of the Dbol.
My only defense is that I am running it at such a low dose, it will maybe allow some oestrogen to be present. Any comments on this?

SB[/quote]

Suppressing your pituitary from releasing LH by taking hcg while taking clomid and nolva to stimulate your pituitary to release LH makes no sense though. Hcg has an active life of what, 64 hours I think, if I remember correctly… So you should either move the hcg to day 13 and start PCT on day 16, if you insist on doing the hcg on day 16, you might as well wait until day 19 to start the nolva and clomid…

I have never heard of atrophy in a day or two. That is very odd to me. I really wouldn’t normally think hcg is needed for a 2 weeker, but if it is what you feel comfortable doing then who am I to tell you otherwise.

As for the mast, that may be more by the individual. Not sure if you have personal experience with mast but one of the guys I train with has comparable results from mast and tren, just less sides and has to pay a little more for mast, although he seems to respond well to any DHT based compound. Personally I gain very little muscle from tren, but lose fat and get stronger.

Whether you decide to take everyone’s advice or not good luck.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Just thinking out loud here but wanted to chuck this out there.
Any objections or changes/additions to this cycle?

Day 1-14 Tren Ace 100mg ED
Day 1-14 Dbol 50mg ED
Day 1-14 Winstrol ED
Day 1-14 Adex 0.25mg ED
Day 1,4,7,10,16 hCG 250iu
Day 15-25 Nolva/Clomid 20/50 ED

I understand that there is subjective talk about running Tren without Test but I am replacing the Test with Dbol, most people say you must run an aromatisable steroid with Tren.
I chucked the stanozolol in there as I am already very lean so its effects should be quite pronounced.

I am at ~8% BF, hoping to drop a percent or so while adding some lean mass.
I am just thinking here, so no flaming about ‘you were just shutdown’ etc etc :slight_smile: I understand that I was just shutdown, I have fully recovered now just wondering is anyone would consider this sort of a cycle.

Cheers ladies,
SB[/quote]

Tren and Dbol is a standard shorty Bill used to promote, no need for test in there. Tren/dbol/winny is actually quite potent stacked together and you’ll be pleased as long as you don’t think you’re going to make MAJOR changes to an already advanced physique in 2 weeks. The adex looks okay for that amount of dbol and HCG being used. I would consider pushing back your last HCG shot to day 13…already mentioned by others. PCT looks fine, although be prepared to extend your SERM use past 10 days based on your history of difficult recovery.[/quote]

Thanks for the input, I am glad you posted since you have experience with short cycles.
Im just looking for a couple pounds of muscle gain, I will be happy with 4-5 pounds of dry muscle.
Im still debating on the hCG, I am very prone to testicular atrophy so I want the hCG to last longer in my blood than any androgen, if that makes sense.

The PCT length is basically just open, I will continue it till I feel I am recovered. Then get a blood test to see values.

SB

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

Suppressing your pituitary from releasing LH by taking hcg while taking clomid and nolva to stimulate your pituitary to release LH makes no sense though. Hcg has an active life of what, 64 hours I think, if I remember correctly… So you should either move the hcg to day 13 and start PCT on day 16, if you insist on doing the hcg on day 16, you might as well wait until day 19 to start the nolva and clomid…

I have never heard of atrophy in a day or two. That is very odd to me. I really wouldn’t normally think hcg is needed for a 2 weeker, but if it is what you feel comfortable doing then who am I to tell you otherwise.

As for the mast, that may be more by the individual. Not sure if you have personal experience with mast but one of the guys I train with has comparable results from mast and tren, just less sides and has to pay a little more for mast, although he seems to respond well to any DHT based compound. Personally I gain very little muscle from tren, but lose fat and get stronger.

Whether you decide to take everyone’s advice or not good luck.
[/quote]

Im not quite sure where you read/heard that hCG will suppress LH production at the pituitary. If you could outline the mechanism by which hCG directly suppresses LH production it will be informative to me.
I think you may be confusing the LH suppression by OESTROGEN produced from the use of hCG, not hCG directly.
The hCG will cause testosterone production, which can aromatise and result in oestrogen suppressing the pituitary from releasing LH.
In which case I believe such a small dose will not cause significant increase in testicular aromatase thus the resulting elevated oestrogen.

However I understand the point you are trying to make so I will wait a couple of days between my last hCG pin and commencement of SERM.
I have used mast before, I like the hard look it gives to the muscle but cannot compare it to the anabolic effects of Tren.

SB

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:

Suppressing your pituitary from releasing LH by taking hcg while taking clomid and nolva to stimulate your pituitary to release LH makes no sense though. Hcg has an active life of what, 64 hours I think, if I remember correctly… So you should either move the hcg to day 13 and start PCT on day 16, if you insist on doing the hcg on day 16, you might as well wait until day 19 to start the nolva and clomid…

I have never heard of atrophy in a day or two. That is very odd to me. I really wouldn’t normally think hcg is needed for a 2 weeker, but if it is what you feel comfortable doing then who am I to tell you otherwise.

As for the mast, that may be more by the individual. Not sure if you have personal experience with mast but one of the guys I train with has comparable results from mast and tren, just less sides and has to pay a little more for mast, although he seems to respond well to any DHT based compound. Personally I gain very little muscle from tren, but lose fat and get stronger.

Whether you decide to take everyone’s advice or not good luck.
[/quote]

Im not quite sure where you read/heard that hCG will suppress LH production at the pituitary. If you could outline the mechanism by which hCG directly suppresses LH production it will be informative to me.
I think you may be confusing the LH suppression by OESTROGEN produced from the use of hCG, not hCG directly.
The hCG will cause testosterone production, which can aromatise and result in oestrogen suppressing the pituitary from releasing LH.
In which case I believe such a small dose will not cause significant increase in testicular aromatase thus the resulting elevated oestrogen.

However I understand the point you are trying to make so I will wait a couple of days between my last hCG pin and commencement of SERM.
I have used mast before, I like the hard look it gives to the muscle but cannot compare it to the anabolic effects of Tren.

SB[/quote]

HCG will absolutely suppress LH production by way of feedback from the testoterone production it causes. Your body sees it has adequate testosterone production (caused by hcg) and shuts down LH production to compensate. This is basic.

LH will already be suppressed, along with testicles atrophied from the cycle itself.
When using AAS, LH is usually the first thing that shuts down (and recovers).
The increase in testosterone from 250iu of hCG IMO will not be sufficient to assert negative feedback on the pituitary, and the hCG will ‘prime’ the testes for the coming signal of LH from the SERM use.

I strongly stand behind the fact that atrophied testicles will NOT, I repeat will NOT respond to SERM use or will take a very long time to testosterone increase even though you may have high LH and FSH levels (speaking from experience, not necessarily scientific backing).
IME this has been true, I learnt the hard way by trying SERM use several times over a year when I was shutdown from Tren last time. My latest cycle my SERM pct failed to achieve an increase in test but as soon as I blasted the hCG I was back online in no time without any sort of rebound.

But anyway, this is off-topic. As agreed I will discontinue the hCG at least 48 hours before the SERM pct starts.
Not sure wether to risk this cycle before my medical finals in May or wait till after.

SB

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

The increase in testosterone from 250iu of hCG IMO will not be sufficient to assert negative feedback on the pituitary, and the hCG will ‘prime’ the testes for the coming signal of LH from the SERM use.

[/quote]

I don’t think this is true. I’m pretty sure that 250 iu hcg is definitely enough to shut down LH production.

That amount is considered roughly a replacement dose from a TRT standpoint (it will produce replacement doses of T). So at that point your pituitary has no other reason to kick out more LH.

As you said though, a moot point.

In that case I may decrease the dose then for my last hCG pin.

SB

Ive done abit of reading and the general consensus is that Tren should be avoided in 2-weekers. The point of a two-week cycle is to avoid suppression and Tren being highly suppressive will be counter-productive.

Any thoughts on this?

SB

I agree. Use masteron.

whatever you use i’d frontload it even if its prop… even on my current run i only noticed difference after about 10 days.

Suspension + Anavar seems perfectly inline with your goals. I feel suspension dries you out plently, but throw in a DHT compound if you want to increase leanness.

-PTD

Its a bummer because I wanted to use Tren, I seem to over-react to it and I sprout with new growth from it.
Unfortunately I cannot get a hold of suspension otherwise I would have experimented with that some time ago. The pain from prop is just unbareable for me, maybe mixing it with masteron will help but then test p/mast will not give such good gains. Lost at the moment.

SB

Contact your UGL? I thought the UK was the candy-land of juice, apparently I was misinformed. :slight_smile:

If you’ve never run Test USP before you really should, I feel it does more of what people say Tren does, than Tren itself, in terms of lean mass and aggression, without the insane sides.

Also pinning once a day is fine with suspension, I didn’t get the ‘missed a shot’ feeling that you get if you miss a Tren A or Test P inject.

GL,
-PTD