T Nation

Traps and Overhead Lifting

I split pushing and pulling now and then due to the better recovery of the other.
I had not given it much thought but technically the traps are synergists when pressing overhead,and I’m a bit paranoid about overworking them. I don’t really care about the bench but I might stick with that and isolation tricep work now and then. I just don’t want my overhead to degenerate.

Do you tend to take this into account in your training?

I dont, I have been using push-pull since August for my competition this week and I have never been more physically in check. You do a max-effort and a dynamic effort day for each motion right?

I can see why you think that, but I only isolate traps on days im neither deading or doing an overhead press of some-sort. (i.e. my dynamic-effort pull day)

I see your not caring about the bench so thats saving your shoulders which you prob overhead heavy on that day, so maybe isolate them on your dynamic effort pull-day beings as your not destroying your shoulder?

[quote]Pipes06 wrote:
I dont, I have been using push-pull since August for my competition this week and I have never been more physically in check. You do a max-effort and a dynamic effort day for each motion right?

I can see why you think that, but I only isolate traps on days im neither deading or doing an overhead press of some-sort. (i.e. my dynamic-effort pull day)

I see your not caring about the bench so thats saving your shoulders which you prob overhead heavy on that day, so maybe isolate them on your dynamic effort pull-day beings as your not destroying your shoulder?[/quote]I vary rep ranges and lifts to a small extent in each workout.

The problem is that overhead pressing and all kinds of pulling both mean trap strain,so my only chance to be completely safe is to do them all the same day,which is asking a lot. It’s (middle and lower traps) one of those muscle groups,like the serratus,which engage in both pulling and pushing.

A lot of people do not seem to mind this,and believe they are still isolating just fine despite the inherent function of the traps. Now that may be reasonable (for example,the pecs or perhaps more appropriately the lateral delts assist strict overhead pressing but I think it’s a stretch to say that they are trained that way) or it may be controversial.

how long have you been doing this routine?

have your overhead presses suffered at all?

are your traps constantly sore?

i think you’re worrying too much.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
I dont, I have been using push-pull since August for my competition this week and I have never been more physically in check. You do a max-effort and a dynamic effort day for each motion right?

I can see why you think that, but I only isolate traps on days im neither deading or doing an overhead press of some-sort. (i.e. my dynamic-effort pull day)

I see your not caring about the bench so thats saving your shoulders which you prob overhead heavy on that day, so maybe isolate them on your dynamic effort pull-day beings as your not destroying your shoulder?I vary rep ranges and lifts to a small extent in each workout.

The problem is that overhead pressing and all kinds of pulling both mean trap strain,so my only chance to be completely safe is to do them all the same day,which is asking a lot. It’s (middle and lower traps) one of those muscle groups,like the serratus,which engage in both pulling and pushing.

A lot of people do not seem to mind this,and believe they are still isolating just fine despite the inherent function of the traps. Now that may be reasonable (for example,the pecs or perhaps more appropriately the lateral delts assist strict overhead pressing but I think it’s a stretch to say that they are trained that way) or it may be controversial.[/quote]

What the fuck is up with your avatar?

I deadlift and clean and press on the same day. I’ve never felt that I was “overworking” my traps, nor has my overhead strength suffered.

My traps are really tight after shoulder pressing for some reason, so much that if I move my head completely to one side fast they tense up.

So far as I can tell EVERY split has at least one weakness/disadvantage to it, at least in theory, for example in having at least one bodypart that gets trained again sooner than one would prefer, or later than one would prefer.

The questions then become, how serious is the problem, and/or am I willing to experience this problem or disadvantage for a period of time and then change to something else later.

Sometimes “theoretical” problems such as traps having to do work two days in a row, though with different movements, are more theoretical than actual anyway. Other times they may be real issues. But even if so, it’s not as if death will result from experiencing that particular disadvantage (if it is one for you) for a period of time while enjoying other benefits.

You can always go to another program later after a while that trades off this disadvantage for at least one other differing disadvantage. Over time everything can average out fine. Or you may well find that the theoretical disadvantages of some programs don’t in fact cause practical problems for you.

[quote]Artem wrote:
My traps are really tight after shoulder pressing for some reason, so much that if I move my head completely to one side fast they tense up.[/quote]

And some people claim their traps grew big from pressing. Food for thought,although they could simply be confused about anatomy.

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
I deadlift and clean and press on the same day. I’ve never felt that I was “overworking” my traps, nor has my overhead strength suffered.

[/quote]

It’s having to deal with the same strain during consecutive days that is the problem.

[quote]Whizzleteets wrote:
how long have you been doing this routine?

have your overhead presses suffered at all?

are your traps constantly sore?

i think you’re worrying too much.[/quote]
Only for the last few months.

I don’t think so.

No. It’s just a theoretical question.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
So far as I can tell EVERY split has at least one weakness/disadvantage to it, at least in theory, for example in having at least one bodypart that gets trained again sooner than one would prefer, or later than one would prefer.

The questions then become, how serious is the problem, and/or am I willing to experience this problem or disadvantage for a period of time and then change to something else later.

Sometimes “theoretical” problems such as traps having to do work two days in a row, though with different movements, are more theoretical than actual anyway. Other times they may be real issues. But even if so, it’s not as if death will result from experiencing that particular disadvantage (if it is one for you) for a period of time while enjoying other benefits.

You can always go to another program later after a while that trades off this disadvantage for at least one other differing disadvantage. Over time everything can average out fine. Or you may well find that the theoretical disadvantages of some programs don’t in fact cause practical problems for you.[/quote]

This is a reason why I’ve mostly done TBT.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
So far as I can tell EVERY split has at least one weakness/disadvantage to it, at least in theory, for example in having at least one bodypart that gets trained again sooner than one would prefer, or later than one would prefer.

The questions then become, how serious is the problem, and/or am I willing to experience this problem or disadvantage for a period of time and then change to something else later.

You can always go to another program later after a while that trades off this disadvantage for at least one other differing disadvantage. Over time everything can average out fine. Or you may well find that the theoretical disadvantages of some programs don’t in fact cause practical problems for you.

This is a reason why I’ve mostly done TBT.
[/quote]

However, TBT also has at least one weakness/disadvantage to it compared to split programs. It enjoys no exemption from the general situation that all programs have at least some compromise to them.

I’ve been doing heavy shrugs and rows followed by heavy benching two days later. Heavy for me, that is. Haven’t experienced a problem at all in the traps. If anything, they’re growing faster due to the higher frequency of work.

[quote]skidmark wrote:
I’ve been doing heavy shrugs and rows followed by heavy benching two days later. Heavy for me, that is. Haven’t experienced a problem at all in the traps. If anything, they’re growing faster due to the higher frequency of work.[/quote]Bench is not supposed to affect the traps to a notable extent though.

Pressed today,mostly tricep extension/pushdown and bench,but a few sets of military. Traps feel like shit.