Transwoman Takes First Place

Mine has fair skin and a mean overhand right.

She’s only part Irish. The other parts are Cherokee. We keep her away from the booze.
:laughing:

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Someone is an idiot. Its not the hormone levels. Nope it is the Y chromosome. You can not change your sex. You can change your looks, but not your reality. You are a male or female in every cell of your body. Any other measure of whether you are a woman or man is not scientific, its political

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Its not just testosterone that makes a difference in sport. Its the combination of:

  1. Males weigh about 15% more than females
  2. Men are taller than women, by about 15 cm (6 inches).
  3. Males have higher lean mass by 13%
  4. Females have lower total muscle mass than males
  5. Females have lower muscle mass in comparison to total body mass
  6. Males convert more of their caloric intake into muscle and expendable circulating energy reserves, while females tend to convert more into fat deposits.
  7. Males are generally physically stronger than females. While individual muscle fibers have similar strength between male and female, males have more fibers as a result of their greater total muscle mass.

All of these factors mean that if a man has low enough testosterone and identifies as a woman it is not fair for them to compete against women.

They cannot be allowed to compete against Women as it is Physiologically unfair.

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This individual has a condition called complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS). Her karyotype is 46 XY, meaning she has a Y chromosome in every somatic cell of her body. She has undergone no surgery, nor has she received exogenous hormone therapy. Would you say she is male?

[Mods: I realize this picture is more revealing than what is normally allowed on TN. However, given its clinical composition, and the fact that it is not being presented for prurient reasons, I hope you will make an exception and allow it to remain.]

Most of these are a direct function of T levels.

My point is that they had the advantage of these before becoming a woman. These effects don’t go away as soon as Test is suspended.

This is my understanding as well.

@EyeDentist How hard would it be to quantify the amount of time it takes for the positive effects of a history of male level T to fade into nothing? Would this be a very very case by case basis, or could overall population assumptions be made without a huge amount of outliers?

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True. One of the issues that needs to be worked out is how low, and for how long, must T levels be suppressed before the advantages drop to an acceptable level (if in fact they ever do).

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Some of the benefits of Testosterone will never go away no matter how long it has been suppressed. There will always be the benefit of once being a man in sport against women.

Maybe, maybe not.

I’ve heard (and it can be completely false) that it takes approximately 7 years for all of the tissue in your entire body to turn over, with bone taking the longest.

That could be completely wrong though.

If this is true then someone would have to have Test suppressed for 7 years with constant supervision to ensure the process is constant just to make it fair for women who have to compete against men.

There would still be physiological differences in bone structure which could affect things like reach in combat sports making it unfair.

Ultimately, I think FTM should compete against Men while MTF should have their own category to make it fair.

Sport is about Science not politics.

It’s important to remember that ‘leveling the playing field’ doesn’t require transforming the physique/physiology of a MTF TG into that of an average cis-female; rather, it just requires transforming it to fall within the normal range for one.

For example, testosterone levels influence height/bone length. So a MTF TG who went through puberty before transitioning will likely be taller than the average woman. Let’s say she’s long-armed and 6’2". Does that represent an unfair advantage in basketball? I would argue not, because there are plenty of cis-women who are long-armed and 6’2". Thus, if height and arm length were the only residua of her previously-male testosterone levels, I would not consider that disqualifying vis a vis competing as a woman in basketball.

I for one find it very unfair that you can increase your competitiveness in sport by transitioning. For it to really be fair, they’d need to end up in the same part of the range for the gender they transition to. You shouldn’t be able to go from mediocre to world class by changing genders.

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This makes way too much sense for the politically correct left wing morons who foisted this crap upon us.

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Well that is interesting. I’d say that for the .0000000000000001% of the people who suffer from this are shit out of luck.

Let’s move on and stop making exceptions for freaks.

Bruce Jenner is not a woman he is a man with a gender identity disorder that the American Pychiatric Association refuses to call a sickness any longer as their board was hijacked by the left wing.

I doubt you would feel the same if it was your child.

Ditto. And ‘freaks’? Your lack of empathy (to say nothing of basic human compassion) is striking. Have you read that book yet?

Perhaps you are right about Jenner; I have no idea. But it doesn’t follow that all TG individuals are as such.

This is a person with a disorder though. It isn’t a parallel if you deny that transgenderism is a disorder.

Such was not the purpose of bringing up CAIS.

The handling of diseased people is a very different issue to the handling of non-diseased people in terms of ethics. You can very easily have different methods for the 2. There isn’t a special Olympics for women when they can’t compete with men because female isn’t a disease. What you posted is the case of a diseased male.

ED, serious question. If being within the realm of normal is all that matters, why does gender matter. If a male is within the normal boundaries of women on structure/performance, why can’t they compete in the lower classification? Why should we relate sporting categories into anything gender based? Why not just hormone/height/muscle mass categories?

Actually I would. I would not believe in changing an entire system nah an entire culture for one person. I would encourage my child to achieve success in a different field.

Oh stop it. We used to put people in a circus who were different (no I don’t agree with that) now we put them up on a pedestal and change our entire culture for an infinitesimal group of people. WHY? So that we can make the rest of society feel uncomfortable and ineligible (see women’s sports). It’s nonsense grown out of pc culture promulgated by the left. Ah the left a political philosophy based purely on emotions. "boo hoo everyone needs free health care…boo hoo free housing…boo hoo free food…What the hell kind of political philosophy is that? Oh yeah I forgot it makes as many people dependent on government which increases the lefts political base. What a good for nothing political philosophy. Now add the freak show and we have yet one more thing to hate the left for.

Yes it does politically correct one. It’s not about hormones or boobs or length of hair. It’s about chromosomes. You can trot out a dozen freaks but that doesn’t change anything.

This entire conversation is stupid.

I want pc culture to dry up and die. If Trump does nothing else other than that (and lower my taxes as I pay way too much) I’ll be happy with him.

Duh a man is woman now and a woman is a man because that’s how they FEEL…LMAO>

:joy:

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