Or their peers.
This is why we’ve seen things like transition pacts, where a statistically unlikely collection of children all realize their trans identity together.
This is discussed in the books Amazon has banned, ostensibly due to the “harm” such a discussion might cause.
Never mind if 4/5 in the trans pact were just confused teenagers, everyone knows that surgical mutilation and hormone treatments are brave, beautiful and guaranteed to gain you LOTS of attention and social media likes.
What troubles me is that there are too many people that think this is a good thing. I feel sad for the state of my country and don’t think it’ll last much longer. Not in any recognizable way anyhow.
As to not come across as disingenuous I’ll state “I was wrong. It is legal to prescribe thirteen year olds birth control.”. I’m not trying to come across as shifty or manipulative, I apologise if I’ve imparted this conceptualisation if myself.
I was aware of BC being given for extreme menstrual cramps, but I wasn’t aware BC could be given without parental consent if the individual at hand was a minor. If I’m being honest, I don’t have an issue with it. I’m aware of the risks associated with BC (mood swings, increased risk of thrombosis, potentially deleterious effect on lipids and other factors that increase the risk of developing CVD) yet I see it as the lesser of two evils.
Most birth control meds are synthetic progestogens derived from 19-nortestosterone. Intrinsically the androgenic activity from say… Levonorgestrel isn’t high enough to classify the drug as an anabolic androgenic steroid, though it is still high enough to impart mild androgenic (acne, weight gain etc) effects towards women predisposed. Taking the ethics/morality behind having sex at a very young age out of the equation I’d argue the risks/complications of teen pregnancy outweigh the risk associated with taking the pill.
If I had the capacity to reproduce and had an option for male birth control I’d take it in a heartbeat… Even if the drug given was a more androgenic derivitive of 19-nortestosterone that’d probably triple my risk for developing CVD. I don’t think this will be the case however, women’s endocrine systems (usually) seem to quickly shut off and turn back on once the pill is taken away. Give a man testosterone/synthetic progestogens as BC and it’ll take them months, if not years to recover after prolonged use. Then there will be the portion of men (perhaps a fairly significant portion) who develop ASIH (anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism) and don’t recover.
To note, i’m not straw-manning you here OR making this my new argument. I’m just giving my opinion on the prospect of young kids getting scripts for birth control. Sometimes parents aren’t around, shit happens… If a 13y/old IS having sex (which is legal here… At least in my state it is provided both partners are less than two years apart) I’d rather see the girl on BC as opposed to potentially falling pregnant and (perhaps?) dying due to complications or getting an abortion.
Teen sex is very common here, seriously there are kids as young as 12-13 going at it… I believe the statistical average for loss of V card in Aus is 16-17. One standard deviation off the norm and you’re probably in “minor” territory.
For SA
“two doctors must be satisfied that you understand their advice and that it is in your best interests to receive a prescription or other form of contraception without parental consent.”
This is why I had the “two MD’s” belief stuck in my mind. Perhaps this is only the status quo on SA?
I’ll say it “You were right, it is legal @Oglebee”
I’m admitting I was wrong.
I believe the psychiatric assessment for assessing gender dysphoria is very comprehensive and prolonged. Barring a genius or a psychopath I’d imagine gaming such a test when you lack the relevant maturity required for abstract thinking would be quite difficult.
Are these pacts that start with a bunch of trans kids meeting up together? If so, the demographic at baseline is HEAVILY skewed towards statistical outliers. I agree there should never be pressure to transition, but if you’re a trans kid meeting up with a bunch of trans kids it’d make sense that more of them end up undergoing a sex change comparative to the entire cohort of my dorm (consisting almost entirely of straight men and women).
Also, think about this statement…
Perhaps this is the belief allocated towards hormonal treatments within the trans community… But certainly not for the general population, particularly if a treatment involves testosterone. I have my testosterone prescribed by a renowned and widely revered medical professional… But do you know how much shit I cop for it within the general community/when other doctors assess me? I’m not considered brave, i’m considered a coward, a cheater and a junkie due to circumstances totally out of my control (note: i’m not a victim, it could be far worse). Hormonal treatments may be considered brave pertaining to the trans community or if treatment involves female hormones… But barring that the hormonal treatment used for FTM patients otherwise has a massive stigma associated with it. I’d argue testosterone has more of a stigma associated with it than opiates do over here.
These scenarios need to be taken on a case by case basis as this is a delicate topic (not trying to be woke). Label some kid who is STRUGGLING with gender identity as someone who is merely confused or trying to game the system and this guy/girl just might jump off a bridge.
It’d be easy for me to point the “mental illness” finger as a result, but I don’t think you or I could adequately comprehend the equitable level of psychological torture associated with transforming into a woman against our will.
I don’t. It seems to be resulting in a lot of people who regret the treatment. The treatment doesn’t seem to reduce suicide rates either.
This is where parenting needs to come in. My cousin is 41 and has never been able to hack it as an independent adult despite 1590 SAT scores, an engineering degree and a master’s in statistics and probability. He has no professional work history aside from teaching while a student.
His parents (both doctors, btw) decided that supporting him in perpetuity was favorable to the possibility that his depression might result in suicide if he was left to his own with a mere genius IQ and advanced STEM degrees.
The outcome is a sad loved one who has never had a meaningful romantic relationship or experienced the satisfaction of independence, but also hasn’t killed himself.
The impulse to see a problem and DO SOMETHING is very strong. The wisdom to consider the possibility that doing nothing will shake out better is not as strong or immediate of an impulse.
Besides, doctors can be some pretty fucked up narcissists. They are not infallible and they certainly won’t know your kid better than you do.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”-C.S. Lewis
Some really intelligent people do really well in school, but poorly in professional work. I think this is common with autism and ADHD / ADD. Academia offers them structure, and a clear goal of what they have to do, with a clear deadline. Work often lacks those things.
I kinda relate to your cousin, although I have been working for 10 years now since college, with no breaks in employment. Work can feel much more overwhelming for me, even though it is actually much easier than what I was doing during my time earning my engineering degree (which didn’t seem overwhelming).
Sounds like the GOP.
Total disclosure - I think Mrs Hubbard is a lady/woman BUT still not entitled to enter as a female athlete.
I ve always been told gender is a “construct”, an idea almost. Sex is biology.
She is transgender. Not transsex.
2 questions.
Is there any way anyone here could see them selves being comfortable with a man - female athlete competing? Is it the current rules are not strong enough OR they can not be strong enough.
If you can not see your self being happy, what is the solution? The number of transgender weight lifters won’t be that great. So starting their own category is not an option. Is Mrs Hubbard not able to compete?
My views are - start a separate category. If that’s not possible then sorry you have to choose.
We’re getting off topic, but my point is that life can feel overwhelming for all kinds of reasons to all kinds of people.
That’s not a reason to chop off your dick unless you’ve really thought it through. No child with the impulse to do that can think it through.
Overcoming life’s challenges is how most of us grow and become wiser adults. This includes overcoming strong impulses we may have towards destructive behaviors.
Compete, as in participate, or compete as in win? It seems that when biological males “compete” against biological females, it’s not very competitive.
I’ve posted this before… But I feel as if this is a relevant and humorous take on the discussion at hand
Not in women’s athletics.
I’m fine with MTF transgenders competing with men, among themselves or in anything co-Ed.
I can definitely vouch for this based on people I know lol
One of the best quotes of all time. A favorite.
Me too. High intelligence and high achievement doesn’t automatically come with the integrity, decency and self-reflection options already installed.
Both sides of the warfare/welfare party.
This is the ethical dilemma.
How do you know that a child cannot think it through?
Many children cannot. Undoubtedly. But many children can.
So what then. And then at what point are they able to make decisions for themselves. You say 18. But you also say that is still a child.
Does that mean you believe we should extend the cut off for what we consider a minor is? Up to 21? Up to 25?
There are many children out there that have significantly better decision making skills than the majority of adults out there. Maybe those “adults” should be in the care of those children. Ahh but the ages are wrong.
What if we had a way to determine if a child has the capacity to make those decisions. A battery of tests.
And those tests show that child has the capacity to make their own decisions.
Would you be okay with allowing them to make their own decisions?
Those tests exist by the way.
You might say they don’t have the life experience and the parents do so the parents need to prevent them from making decisions they can regret. My 60 year old father tells me all the time that if he knew at 30 what he did at 60 he would have done so many things differently. Because of the life experience. Now his father died when he was 8 but if he were alive when my father was 30 maybe he should have had final say in all my fathers decisions. And if fortune blesses my father and he is vibrant and getting after at 120 he will say “oh oglebee if only I knew at 60 what I knew at 120.”
So my point is at a certain point a person needs to be deemed competent and allowed to make their own decisions for better or worse.
And this is part of the issue. One of the reasons children’s rights came to prominence was because parents far too often treat them as property. But they do not belong to you they belong to themselves. Despite the tremendous investment that is parenting at the end of the day they are their own person.
I get it. Its your responsibility to protect them. But if it comes to major life decision. And they are deemed capable of making that decision why should they not make that decision? Because you disagree with the lifestyle? You think is immoral? Insert whatever reason you want.
Maybe you feel that them following a life path that is acceptable to you and your world view is owed to you because of the tremendous investment put forth on your part raising them.
These are rare situations. From what I quoted earlier 0.06 % or 1.4 million people identify as trans.
There are 74.2 million minors in the united states. Lets assume that all 1.4 million people who identify as trans were minors which it definitely isn’t but if we did assume that then still for 98 % of minors out there this isn’t even an issue.
We are talking about a minute subset of individuals.
Also. Not into kids transitioning. But I am very much interested in the ethics regarding a child’s capacity for self determination.
Thank you for the thoughtful post. I will respond sometime within the next 72 hours, unless things somehow go horribly awry for me here in Maine, where nothing strange ever happens. Wish me luck in the days ahead.
I thought Lake Woebegone was in a different state.
It actually doesn’t exist, but fictionally, it is in Minnesota. Probably you knew this though.