Lets make a deal, argue honestly. that is the deal, just do it, because you should we all should. Anything else makes us look bad. I think we are all smarter than that bull shit. Let the folks on MSNBC and FOX play those games
Read it, use your head, think about what you were saying. Because your republicans on welfare statement is such a weak minded fallacy. There is no way you did not know it was before you said it. You are a bright guy
Will do, Verne.
I would also ask that people be honest about the narrative they are pushing.
But I will take your challenge. I will argue honestlyâŠor not at all.
Unless you have read things I did not. You made an assumption, it could be very wrong.
No I am not pushing that narrative at all. If I were I would have done so. If you read the post you are referring to I was claiming that LBJ was attempting to gain black support for generations. He claimed it and he was correct. Prior to his great war on poverty many blacks voted republican.
What else is there? Nothing.
I did not mean anything other than what I wrote.
You need to back away from the keyboard slowly and catch your breath. Donât go on the attack for any imagined slight. I didnât say it and it didnât happenâŠonly in your mind.
With all due respect, your understanding of where we are, and how we got here, is very simplistic. The poor current stats re elected offices occupied by Dems is due to the fact that the Republicans have vastly outplayed the Dems with regard to long-term strategy, both in terms of vision/planning and execution. Have you ever heard of Project RedMap? No? Thatâs too bad; you need to look into it. Do you know who Chris Jankowski is? If not, you should. (And if you ever meet him, you should buy him a drink.)
I say this because, despite the enormous elected-office advantage currently enjoyed by the GOP, the facts are:
- The Dem POTUS candidate garnered ~3M more votes than did the GOP candidate.
- In 2016, Dem Senate candidates received ~6M more votes than did their GOP counterparts.
- In the House, the GOP percentage of votes received decreased by 2.5% (comparing 2016 to 2014), whereas the Dems went up by the same number.
So while an undeniably brilliant long game by the GOP has put them in the catbird seat with respect to elected office nationwide, it doesnât change the fact that the nation is becoming more liberal, and the GOP more out of touch. Tick tock.
No, please donât re-flog that dead, dead horse. Weâre all quite familiar with that list at this point. But youâre ducking that fact that you suggested Obama was to blame for the exodus of manufacturing jobs, which was factually incorrect. (OTOH, if youâre now walking that erroneous suggestion back, good on you.)
What youâre failing to realize (or intentionally ignoring), is that the young unreliable voters of today are the middle-aged reliable voters of tomorrow. Tick tock, zeb.
No doubt, some will move toward the center as they age. But given their current position, they will not end up moving far enough rightward to support Trump-style politics.
I read this as stating, âI donât like to deal in factsâjust opinions.â
Did I say that? Iâm pretty sure I didnât say that. At any rate, allow me to clarify. What I was trying to say was that more and more poorly-educated individuals who had depended upon low-skill manufacturing jobs to earn a decent living have found themselves jobless and without prospects. This trendâwhich has been ongoing for decadesâonly recently reached âcritical massâ from a political perspective. Trump recognized the electoral potential of this angry, scared demographic, and used them to demagogue his way into the WH.
That depends entirely on whether he sign the bills Paul Ryan sends him. If he does, heâll loseâbigly. If he doesnât, he still doesnât have much of a chance, but that doesnât mean the Dems canât screw it up.
Weâll have to agree to disagree on this score.
Funny, I couldnât find any support for this claim in the DNC platform. Can you provide a link to support it, or would doing so violate your preference for fact-free discussions? 
Yeah, this one is baffling.
- You still havenât offered a consistent, sensible definition of male and female. (The genetic one is clearly inadequate, as evidenced by CAIS individuals.)
- You are conflating biological sex with gender. They are not the same thing.
Yes I did. Iâll try again with you. XY is a boy chromosomes get it?
And we are talking about physical reality. Sex is all that is a physical really. Gender is a construct more a linguistic term than anything that can be called science.
This definition puts you in the frankly absurd position of classifying CAIS individuals (like the one in the photo upthread) as âmale.â
Note that I didnât say you hadnât come up with a definition of male/female; I said you hadnât come up with a consistent and sensible definition.
There is nothing absurd about rare birth defects. Absurd is redefining what is normal based on them
You are simply being political and not remotely scientific.
Yeah, simplistic but SPOT ON. Add up the seats that the dems lost. You lost pal suck it up and stop trying to make it a âonce in a lifetime thing that will never happen again.â Funny stuff.
For you to claim that the whole world is changing and I and my cohorts will simply be left behind is foolish. Take a look at the past 13 Presidents from Harry Truman to Donald Trump you will see that it is just about split 7 R and 6 D. And here is a fun fact for you. The last party to control the White house for 12 years were the republicans. Eight years of Ronald Reagan and four years of Bush the senior (See I donât have to cut and paste these are facts from memoryâŠtry it sometime)
Now there were many changes from the late 1940âs to 2016 as you know. Demographics changed to be sure. But as I have repeatedly said no one has any idea which group is going in which direction four years from now.
Two examples:
Black people voted pretty much split ticket BEFORE the mid 1960âs and the great war on poverty pushed by LBJ.
Union workers voted D for President until Ronald Reagan won them over in 1980 and then Trump did it again in 2016. Who would have known prior to those dates? Right? The Dems may win them back if Trump screws up badly enough. Then again if crazy Lizzie runs Trump gets reelectedâŠbut I digress.
Simply because the country is more racially diverse does not mean that the dems have a lock on the Presidency or any other public office. The fact that I pointed out that the Dems lost just about everywhere in 2016 should tell you something.
You are nothing if not stubborn.
You know I have accused Obama of many things but at this point in time I do not recall accusing him of losing manufacturing jobs. If you would be so kind as to point out the post where I said such a thing I would be glad to apologize for not remembering. But at this point I am sure I never leveled that one at him. He was bad enough I donât have to make things up about him.
And what youâre failing to realize (or intentionally ignoring) is that as people grow older they grow more conservative. YeahâŠyou do know this right? Someone who is crazy for crazy Lizzie as a 20 year old is not so crazy about border line Socialism when they are 40 with two kids a wife and a job. Funny how people get smarter as they get older. Well at least those who are not sucking off the government tit, or some other institution that directly benefits from large out of control government spending and âtouchy feelyâ sick politics.
Even if they move to the center that keeps the wackadoodle lefties out of powerâŠunless they have another charismatic candidate to put forward. Usually though they are only once in a generation.
Well, read it this way instead: Any idiot can cut and paste to make their argument. Itâs not difficult using other peoples positions. However, as I said for every âfactâ that you can cut and paste I can cut and paste a counter fact. It gets boring and tiresome.
But we can keep doing it matters not. This entire argument wonât go anywhere anyway. We will both walk away with our opinions unchanged. By the way donât take any of this too seriously you are on a bodybuilding site using one thread of many to defend your position and I am doing the same. In short we change nothing âŠnadaâŠits all for fun. If itâs fun for you to cut and paste âŠsure I can do that but keep in mind they can be ignored just as you ignored the many polls that I posted which clearly show most Americans are against men peeing in the ladies roomâŠHa. That always makes me laugh. Whenever I think that the left canât get any wackier âŠTHEY GET WACKIER. I Wonder whatâs next a separate bathroom for midgets who are not tall enough for the urinal? ha haâŠoh wait I donât think that was pc was it? HmmâŠshall I call them vertically challenged people? Hoo hahahah
And yes you did say: âthis has been the worst economy in generationsâ. Donât back away from it you were finally correct on a political topic so thatâs a good thing.
I thought he was saying âbiglyâ too until he corrected one reporter. He told them he was saying âbig leagueâ. But it is Trump so who knows right?
Um, neither you nor I know what is going to happen over the next three years when candidates begin their Presidential campaigns, all we can do is speculate. On that note I have never seen or read about a President who has been voted out of office who has improved the economy. If Trump does that it matters not how many mad white people, or left wing loons there are he will get reelected.
As for the dems screwing it upâŠthey already are my friend. But, your left mindedness cannot see it happening before your very eyes. Donât think for a second that it has not been noted by most in the center what is going on right now. The dems are running to the left and that does not get any of them elected to the Presidency. Obama was the most liberal President to ever achieve that. And he did it because he was:
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Black
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Charismatic
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Ran against a dud named McCain
If the Dems put up crazy Lizzie Warren they will lose. Just like I said one year before this past Presidential election that no matter who the republicans put up Hillary will be defeated. Time will tell right?
Funny how you associate cutting and pasting someone elseâs work with the word âfactsâ. I have given you plenty of facts mixed of course with opinion. But for some reason you feel the need to run and get someone elseâs work to make your pointâŠwhich by the way can be rebutted by still other peoples work which can disprove their point.
My point is what is the point? Like I said we can play that gameâŠit seems so easyâŠ
Ha hahahaha hoo hee hahahaâŠI just canât believe that Iâm reading this from someone who is otherwise intelligent and successful.
Wow the left is simply nuts!
No, absurd is sticking dogmatically to a concept that is clearly inadequate.
Respectfully, I defy you to show people the pic of the CAIS woman, and see how many will agree with you that that individual is a man, and thus should be required to use the menâs restroom, compete in menâs sports, etc. So long as you make clear to them that she is not transgenderedâie, that she has had no plastic surgery, nor has she undergone any hormonal treatmentâI think youâll find yours is a minority opinion.
Again, respectfully, you are badly off-base. Specifically:
- You think karyotype (ie, XX vs XY) determines biological sex. As the genetics research literature (and the existence of CAIS, PAIS, and intersexed individuals) makes clear, this is demonstrably incorrect from a scientific perspective.
- You think biological sex determines gender. As voluminous psychology/psychiatry research makes clear, this also is demonstrably incorrect from a scientific perspective.
I would say you are the one in this discussion whose âunderstandingâ of the science is being determined by their sociopolitical views.
Sorry dude you are nothing but political. I canât even offer your foolish thoughts any respect
Did I say that? Iâm pretty sure I didnât say that.
I see you havenât educated yourself on those points I made above.
OK, great.
Iâm pretty sure I addressed this exact point above.
Youâre rightâsubstantive discussion that actually delves into facts, and forces people to examine the facts at a granular level, is difficult and tiring. Itâs also the only way to actually address empirical issues.
To the contrary: Some of my opinions have been modified by exchanges here on PWI. (Not by you, of course.) 
Despite the seriousness of my tone, I can assure you I am keeping these discussions in perspective, and agree that it is (mainly) for fun. (I say mainly because while old codgers such as us are fairly set in our ways, some young lurkers may find something said helps them work out their understanding of an issue. In addition to the sport of it, they are a reason I engage in these sparring matches.)
Wrong, garbreath. (Pop culture reference likely meaningful only to me and zeb.) What I said was âTrumpâs disaffected base is experiencing a level of economic uncertainty not seen in this country in generations.â
[Re the outlandish claim regarding HRCâs position on abortion]
âClinton has long said that sheâd support a late-term limit on abortionâprovided it has exceptions.â
[âŠ]
"CLINTON: âNo â I have been on record in favor of a late pregnancy regulation that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother.â
Deep breaths, zeb. Take deep breaths.
WellâŠ
But, you did say that people like me are dinosaurs and implied that the republicans wonât win again.
Oh I read them and I gave them all of the credence that anyone would who actually understands this game. The only thing that matters is who wins.
You addressed the point by claiming that they will move toward the middle which I acknowledged. However I also said that moving toward the middle would not get people like crazy Lizzie elected. Who did the independents vote for in 2016? Donald Trump. It takes an exceptional candidate like a Barack Obama, to pull the middle to the left. Check the history.
In addition to this many will become conservatives as I stated in my previous post. This certainly harms the democrats. 20 years olds rarely stay as liberal as they were at that tender age. I already pointed out the groups who vote democrat. Unless they are in one of those groups YOU LOST EMâ
Donât get snarky ED, your personality is whatâs keeping you afloat.
Furthermore, we can examine facts and we do. If you think that you posting something from the NY Times and me countering it with an article from the Wall Street Journal is good debate like I said bring it on. To me itâs a mindless cut and paste orgy that goes no where. But if someone (not necessarily you) lacks a good background on a given topic then I suppose cut and paste is an option.
I never seek to change the minds of any hard core lefties. Why? Because they are hard core lefties for a reasonâŠback to school:
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Those in or affiliated with teachers unions
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Long-term recipients of government entitlements
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Government workers or others who prosper directly from a bloated federal government.
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University Professors who are totally out of touch with reality.
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twenty somethings who have been spoon fed left wing drivel from their left wing Professors and have not had to earn a buck and donât quite understand that people like crazy Lizzie will pick their pocket someday when they have more than two nickels to rub together.
When someone falls into any of those five groups they will never have a rational thought regarding politics so they are democrats. Yes, there are others but those are the main ones.
I wonât try to sway you from your touchy feely political thinkingâŠit canât be done. Iâm just having fun this is better than TV on a Sunday afternoon.
Yeah, thatâs what I thought. You think that someone is going to read what you wrote and say âmy gosh why didnât I think of that soonerâŠyesâŠyes big hairy men should be allowed to pee in the little girls roomâ
Ha sorry I canât give that one up.
AnywayâŠnoâŠno one cares what we are saying, just you and I and I barely care most of the time. But I like you so I keep going. You are truly a good guy and youâre very smart just on the wrong side of the issues. True we never again the exception being your comment about this being the worst economy in generations.
Anyway we can keep doing this. I have actually had some debates on T Nation back in the day that lasted 6 or 7 months. Insane huh?
The above had me howlingâŠthis is why I talk you all the time. You can be one very funny individual.
Her own words:
She would never vote to ban late term abortions as in the 9th month.
And again:
And since I know you like cut and paste it is three for the price of one today:
Pretty clear my friend.
Iâm not so sure you are seeing the picture clearly. Abortion was illegal prior to 1973 then it was a matter of when a woman could have the abortion right? Through the past several years the time period has moved toward 9 months in the oh so morally moribund democratic party.
So they have slowly through the years moved the envelope in the wrong direction. What in the world would ever make you think in a world where the left wants Bubba to pee in the little girls room that the far left would not embrace infanticide? That is the only place left to goâŠYou think it all stops here? Oh come on youâve lived long enough to know that nothing ever stopsâŠ
Cat man better register as a democrat he will want to have the full backing of the DNC in helping institute special rights for his ilk. It will be heartwarming for him to know that every freak of nature no matter how few are entitled to change an entire society its rules and culture in order to give them super special rights.
MANCAT BATHROOM ONLY