T Nation

Trans-Woman Breaks Woman's British DL Record with 260kg Pull


#41

I think you’re onto something. I’m just trying to figure out what sort of operation could be done to help this man:


“A man who describes himself as an “animal stuck inside a human body” has decided to abandon his wife and children to live the life of a squirrel in the woods.”


#42

I don’t think you’re trying to figure that out at all.


#43

Do you think it could be possible for a fully functional and healthy squirrel brain to grow inside the skull of a biological human, or vice versa? If not, then you are a closed-minded bigot.


#44

Ok Chris.


#45

You’re conflating “mind” and “brain.” The two are not necessarily identical. I’m not arguing for the existence of an immaterial soul; I’m simply saying that the mind is not simply identical with the brain. The mind is in some sense a construct, an assemblage of different phenomena we link together. You’d have to demonstrate that there are physical differences in the brain structure for your question to hold.


#46

For sure, and I do it on purpose, because people wish to claim this is a disease of the brain, but it may perhaps be one of the mind, or more specifically one of the body.

And this is what I’m curious about. Are the brains physically different, or are they the same brain and that gender is simply a construct of conditioning? If the latter, it seems to lend credit to the notion that gender is more a social construct than anything else. If we instead wish to argue that there IS such a thing as a male and female brain, then it begs the question of if it’s possible such a brain be in the wrong body.


#47

For the record, there is some evidence for biological mismatch of gender of brain and body. What I find fascinating is that if it’s biological in cause, that fact actually undercuts some of the ideological arguments for complete gender fluidity.


#48

It’s definitely a thought provoking issue in that regard. And then it begs the question of what we mean when we say “gender fluidity” vs say “biological fluidity”. If we again say that gender is merely a social construct, it gets muddy. If we say it links directly to biology, it becomes slightly more clear, but then we wonder how to employ the words “masculine” and “feminine” as they apply socially.


#49

Excellent points, Flip (as usual). To your point, the fact that “no records have been broken, etc.” is inconclusive when transgender participation has only been permissible for a little more than a decade in the Olympics (and for far less time in other sport arenas), and transgender athletes are a tiny portion of the population and a minute portion of athletes competing.


#50

All this discussion, and not one mention of Dani Shugart’s article today on TNation?


#51

Do you mean this one?


#52

Lol. Yeah. Lost in the maelstrom…

I’ll be the dick here, and just say that the “discussion” in this thread is a bit of a circle jerk.


#53

It’s excellent, frankly. I think she describes the issues well. Bottom line: many of the athletic advantages of male puberty last - they extend beyond ones current hormonal profile - so if we respect women’s spaces and the idea of sex-based athletic competition rather than a free-for-all, post-pubescent MTF transgender athletes should not be competing in women’s sports.


#54

From a poster (@DaCharmingAlbino) in the Over35 forum:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190125084106.htm


#55

That’s what philosophy is, haha.


#56

There are. I remember from basic biology that women have triple the brain structures or “areas” for communication than men have.

@T3hPwnisher sexual differentiation starts for boys when the mother’s body gets essentially a pulse of testosterone.

Given that we have industrial runoff, xenoesteogens in pesticides/plastics, men have 50% less test than two generations ago, and women take estrogen and progesterone before getting pregnant.

It’s not unreasonable to guess that a XY male zygote could get a messed up pulse of hormones that don’t do the complete job of masculinizing the brain. One of the fetal development articles I read talked about how a stressed out mother (no drugs or booze) could change the baby’ brain chemistry and development permanently.


#57

Yes exactly. My hope is that, when the dust settles, we will recognize that (1) many forms of gender distinction/ expressionare culturally determined (e.g.,long vs. short hair) but (2) gender has a biological rather than purely ideological basis.


#58

(Back around post 17…)


#59

Very good point


#60

I said it in my post about Laurel Hubbard over a year ago. This is a women’s issue. Many, possibly even most feminists are still pushing biological women under the bus in an effort to virtue signal the loudest when it comes to trans women in sports. Something has to give in that camp, or more and more women will be cheated out of scholarships, contracts, high-level competition opportunities and even the simple joy of competing against your peers at any level.

I’ve trained extensively with a friend of mine who came out as trans last year. Mostly jiu jitsu, but some lifting here and there as well. His master’s weightlifting competition numbers when identifying as a male were within 15kg of the all-time USA women’s total in the same weight class, and I do not think his training, while still quite serious, was anything like what the best women in the world do to reach the heights that they do. My friend is a fine athlete by any measure, but geriatric by weightlifting standards and still within striking distance of the best women ever to lift at any age in that weight class.

I’m nowhere near as good of an athlete as my friend, but I’ve got a bigger deadlift than all but a small handful of women ever to live, gained by what I’d describe as a few years of semi-serious hobbyist level training. I don’t care what sort of hormones i take for a year, that advantage can’t possibly evaporate into a cloud of estrogen farts or whatever happens to you when you put your endocrine system through a male-to-female transition.

Women transitioning to men is an entirely different scenario, and one that doesn’t present the same issues of unfairness. Women, self-identified feminists in particular, will have to brave the storm of hate accusations if sanity is ever going to be restored. Dani’s article is a fine example of that, and I’m sure she will come under fire as a public figure who has the audacity to dissent from what seems to be mainstream feminist thought.

Forming a trans league or compete with men are the only sane options I see for trans people of all stripes.