Training With vs Without Supplements?

In reading about the benefits of Plazma, MAG-10, and Surge Workout Fuel, I noted that often cited benefits included being able to train with more weight and more volume. So trainees are stronger and have more stamina for their workouts while they have these supplements in their bodies.

It struck me to wonder, then, how much of a trainee’s strength and stamina is “fake” and then lost when you don’t have the supplements in your system. If I’m only able to lift whatever weight while I have Plazma going, how strong am I, “really”, when I’m out in the world, living my life?

There was an article that I read on here…possibly one by Chris Shugart), in which it was pointed out that, often, when steroid users are off their steroids, they don’t know how to train to get good gains (let alone the gains they’re used to), leading many to stop training out of a lack of the results they’re used to.

If Plazma, SWF, etc. are as effective as they’re supposed to be, couldn’t this lead a trainee into a similar supplement-supported false world, in which we believe we can squat/bench/deadlift/standing-press/barbell row/power-clean/whatever x pounds for however many sets and reps for a few workouts and gain y pounds of muscle, but, without those supplements, we’re just shadows of our supplement-fueled muscle-y selves, just as likely to get frustrated with suddenly ineffectual-feeling training regimens?

This may be too philosophical a question for the “Biotest Supplement Advice” forum, but it’s late here, and sometimes my mind throws out some puzzlers. Is the line between supplements like these and steroids just a legal one?

If you don’t eat you will get weak very fast. Does that mean the line between food and steroids is just a legal one?

Do you really think of “supplements” as being in the same category as “food”?

That’s not a perspective that I’d considered.

But the anecdotes mention how much more strength and stamina the trainees have when those supplements are in them, presumably relative to their “normal” levels of strength and stamina while training. Do you equate that effect to eating “normal” food?

You do not loose your strength if you stop taking supplements. you just take longer to recuperate. So, gains come “slower”.

I think your “philosophical” conundrum is being caused by trying to put supplements into an existing category.

While you might see increased recovery or “gains” from taking supplements they will never equal PEDs. As touched on already supplements supplement a diet so are seen more in line with food but if it helps you think of them as a separate category all together.

[quote]Shadowhawk wrote:
If I’m only able to lift whatever weight while I have Plazma going, how strong am I, “really”, when I’m out in the world, living my life?[/quote]
If I’m a 19-year old college student living alone in a dorm with an unlimited meal plan taking 9 credits this semester, I can train with a certain intensity and frequency. But how strong would I “really” be if I was a 19-year old who had to commute to school by bus, taking 15 credits, and working 30-hours a week?

Dude, you’re comparing training under ideal circumstances (proper peri-WO nutrition) to less-than-ideal circumstances. A little oversimplified, but pretty obvious what’s going to happen.

Or are you talking about “I can deadlift 365 with workout nutrition, but I can’t pick up a heavy box at work without my a workout shake beforehand”?

Nope. Again, you’re talking about using the best supplements to support a given intensity of training. If one were to remove those supplements, it would be unrealistic to expect to maintain the same level of intensity in training.

With that said, don’t make supps out to be some type of Band-Aid or crutch. The general idea for successful training in the 21st century would/should be to design an efficient plan that coordinates training, nutrition, and supplements.

By following that type of plan over the long term, certain results can be achieved. Once those results are achieved, the credit, rightfully, goes to the combination of training, diet, and supplements.

It’s not that you’ve “built fake strength.” It’s that you used every tool available in the pursuit of your goals.

No. Just, no. Not even close, and to think so shows an underlying misunderstanding of just what the products are, and what they can do.

Thanks for taking the time to chime in! I’ve used Surge Recovery and the Metabolic Drive products for years, Surge Workout Fuel maybe a handful of times, and just about to start the Plazma Super Stack, so it’s helpful to hear how others think about the peri-workout stuff versus the SR and MD products I’m used to.

Its all about the recovery man.