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Training when Using the Anabolic Diet


#1

Greetings.

There are several great old threads on the anabolic diet but there unwieldy and huge.

I recently started back with it as a CKD diet.

What training is recommended on the diet?

I’m tempted to do the big beyond belief training but it looks like it may cause burnout.

Also I’d want to do deadlift which isn’t on the big beyond belief template, but could be if I wanted to I guess.

I am starting with the break in phase of bodyweight x 18 and wanted opinions here.

Thanks.


#2

Little Ketosis on CKD

Research by Dr Jake Wilson demonstrated that on a CKD that you are only in ketosis 1- 2 days.

When you carb up on Saturday and Sunday then go keto on Monday through Friday, you don’t achieve ketosis until Thursday or Friday, Thus, you are only in ketosis for about 1.5 to maybe 2 days.

Wilson’ research also demonstrated the the CKD also increased body fat. Your system essentially become a ketone burning factory and loses it ability to utilize glucose (carbohydrates), especially when you flood you system with a high carbohydrate intake.

Wilson’s research found that the key to transitioning from keto to carb needed to be achieved by staring off with about 100 gram a day and slowly ramping it up.

Doing so minimized glucose being stored as body fat; minimized that body fat you added.

This has to do with…

“Metabolic Flexibility”

This defined as your body ability to transition from one fuel source to another; fat to glucose (carbohydrates) or glucose (carbohydrates) to fats.

Individual who on high carbohydrate diets are “Carb Dependent” fore energy.

Individual who are on high fat/lower carb/moderate protein keto diets are "Keto Dependent for energy.

You system become “Keto Adapted”, efficient at utilizing ketone for fuel and inefficient at processing carbohydrates.

The optimal method of developing “Metabolic Flexibility” is…

Intermittent Fasting

Dr Mike T. Nelson provide some great information on this on how Intermittent Fasting program you system to be most efficient at using and transitioning from burning ketones to glucose; being able to use the right fuel source for the right job.

Kenny Croxdale


#3

So, would it be better to either be keto or carb dependant? Can one be just lower carb 100-150g a day?


#4

If Jake Wilson is Jacob Wilson, I appreciate his work however I generally take what he says with a grain of salt.

Some of his work with supplements like his HMB study that muscletech used are based nowhere in reality and are just outrageous.

Are you familiar with lyle mcdonalds “Ultimate diet 2.0?”

I only ask because the ultimate diet 2.0 (important to note the version as it’s not the same as Dan Duchaine’s first book) has a huge section on how the body doesn’t switch back from a fat burning to carb burning mechanism as easily as people think, and that over the course of a 36 hour short overfeeding period you are still burning fat if you carb load with absolutely minimal fat.

As for intermittent fasting, I agree that it’s awesome. In some ways, it’s the perfect way to eat absolutely.

As I type this, I wonder why I don’t just do the much more structured ultimate diet 2.0 vs the sloppier anabolic diet.


#5

If you read what Dr. DiPasquale actually says in the Anabolic diet, he says it isn’t supposed to be a Ketogenic diet or CKD. He claims you hover just outside of ketosis because of the massive carb ups in the weekend by design.

A few things. The Anabolic diet is all about making adjustments based on results (as any diet should be). It’s more like a framework.

You should be able to train however you want. I would put the tougher/lower body work earlier in the week while you have more glycogen.


#6

x2. He has real credibility issues after this.


#7

This is the ‘small print’ of a strict cyclical ketogenic diet’ and the part we all struggle with, more pizza anyone??. It is also true that the Jacob Wilson study did not mandate that subjects on the CKD carb-up cleanly. The outcome may have been different had that variable been controlled (they didn’t workout on carb days either). Though very anecdotal, there is a well-known face on social media who has followed a CKD for years and he maintains using a strict low fat carb source post-depletion is the only mode that seems to work. His go to is something like Twinkies (I cannot remember the brand) eaten dry, with daily fat intake rock bottom.


#8

Hey OP,

For the most part (minus some straying for specific test/goals), I’ve been on the anabolic template for 6 or so years.

I’ve gained weight with it, cut with it, gained strength, etc.

I’ve experimented with different training and different strategies with the diet itself.

These are just some of my suggestions / findings (not perfect, won’t be best for everyone, etc):

1.) Play with the carb load. For the first few years I over did the carb ups. 48 hours was way to much… and depending on how you attack it… 24 hours is too long too. I’ve had great success with 4-24 hours. Now days I generally have one large carb meal a week and find that it’s enough. Take into consideration that I squat on Fridays before that carb meal and have no performance issues. I feel like once you’re fully adapted to this eating style you body will be more efficient at holding on to muscle glycogen… I’m no scientist though.

2.) Train how you want for your specific goals. I’ve done 5/3/1, GVT, BBB, and others with no issues. You’ll have to adjust your caloric intake and possibly the size of your carb up (maybe) for these different training routines. Now days I follow the 12 week program (on repeat) put out by Brian Alsruhe with a bunch of Strongman training mixed in. And the Rower. Last year I managed to hit all time PRs in the squat, bench, and DL (Still progressing after years on this diet).

3.) As someone above said, it’s a template… You will need to make it your own in some way. First place to start is with the carb loads in my opinion. Like I said mine is down to ~ 200g once a week and I feel great.

4.) If you don’t like one large carb load a week… Try 2 small carb meals. This was promoted by Rob Fagin in his book Natural Hormonal Enhancement… Good read there. As a side note, I’ve also experimented with eating “paleo/primal” in the AD frame work. It works too. No issues.

5.) The transition period of 10-14 days is 100% necessary, IMO. In reality, I think people can continue to “adapt” to this eating template for months. This differs from person to person.

6.) Steak > Chicken

7.) When you do bloodwork, I’d suggest to get the full test run that shows the full distribution of lipoprotiens. (i.e. small dense LDL is bad, large fluffy LDL… not so much). The basic lipid profile test calculate the LDL… and if your triglycerides are low the calculation will grossly overestimate the LDL… and your doctor will flip. I’d say as a whole doctors aren’t versed in nutrition.

Reading List (if your serious):
Protein Power - Eades
The Vegetarian Myth - Lierre Keith
The Paleo Solution - Robb Wolf
Why We Get Far - Gary Taubes
The Primal BluePrint - Mark Sission
Natural Hormone Enhancement - Rob Fagin
Fat Chance - Robert H. Lustig

A lot of this is my opinion… Just sharing,
JK29


#9

Everyone’s first carb up after the induction phase is epic. I had two whole boxes of rice Chex and a gallon of skim milk.


#10

Hahaha, yeah they were… The trick for me was not making every carb-up epic. You can out eat effectiveness for sure. I have the ability to eat a lot of food, and that was something I had to real in.


#11

Great information here, fellas. Well done.


#12

I recall the old days when I did a carb up every 14 days. I always started with a huge lunch of spaghetti bol using minced chicken breast instead of beef. After 5 mins eating this stuff I’d be sweating and my hands shaking. Mad stuff.


#13

What does it look like for you now days?


#14

My CKD days are well over. Wouldn’t recommend them. There is research now showing they lead to muscle loss when in an energy deficit. Sadly, it is yet another diet sold on ‘eat whatever and still lose’ premise encouraging binge eating and other bad habits.


#15

Interesting to hear your perspective. I have not put it aside. I’ve had my best success (strength gain, fat loss w/ muscle retention, etc) following this style of eating, however, my “carb-ups” are very tame. No binge eating or bad habits here. It’s also been extremely easy for me to stay consistent over the last 6 years or so. I believe it can still be utilized effectively and go head to head with other styles of dieting. Just an opinion.


#16

I hear you. For me, one of the biggest incentives is that it frees you up somewhat to eat, dine, etc, more socially at weekends. If you can control that then fair play to you. You should check out a guy called Mike Trinchitella aka Keto Diesel. He started 22 years ago.