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Training Strength While on Keto?

Hi. I am about 110kg/240lbs, 182cm, 23 years old, bf% 35% or so.

Some say that its possible to get gains/strength while losing excess bodyfat; how is this possible since one requires anabolic state and the other katabolic?

Is it possible to train for strength while losing weight at the same time (look at my stats)?

If so, I’m gonna do this the ketosis way, eat targeted ketosis cycle-way (carbs 20g/day, more on training days), and train 2x times per week.

Doable or not? Or is it possible only because strength can be gained from increasing muscle activation % while losing fat?

It’s possible for you to lose weight, get stronger and gain muscle, yes.

Do all of those things happen at the exact same time in your body. No.

Eat healthier, train hard, sleep well, and your body will have no excuses to store excessive body-fat.

[quote]Claudan wrote:
Do all of those things happen at the exact same time in your body. No.[/quote]
Then why do people write about having gotten gains while losing?

[quote]wimp wrote:

[quote]Claudan wrote:
Do all of those things happen at the exact same time in your body. No.[/quote]
Then why do people write about getting gains while losing?
[/quote]

Because it is possible. Your body prioritizes functions depending on it’s need.

So, after a workout, your body will spend time recovering and re-building.

during a workout, chances are your body can use your stored body fat as a energy source to a certain extent.

etc etc.

The way to lose weight and gain muscle, is to train, eat smart, and sleep well. If you do those things, you will be one of those people who “make gainz while l0se fat”

[quote]Claudan wrote:
The way to lose weight and gain muscle, is to train, eat smart, and sleep well. If you do those things, you will be one of those people who “make gainz while l0se fat” [/quote]Nice. Love the leetspeak!

If you are untrained and weak when you start, you will most likely get stronger if you hit the weights, even while cutting. If you are, for example, a trained powerlifter with exceptional strength but also fat, you will most likely lose strength on a cut, even if you keep training hard. In either event, resistance training helps reduce muscle loss or wasting on a cut.

I would focus on fat loss; hit the weights; and if you get stronger along the way consider it a bonus. After you get the fat off you can shift your focus to building muscle and strength.

voi vittu :wink:

//malmo OG

Also, when I am cutting, I generally follow Carb Night Solution by John Keiffer, and effectively eliminate all carbs six days a week, but I still need to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat. Keep that in mind, because some people think just adjusting macros will cause rapid fat loss. In my experience, this just isn’t true. Calories also count.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Keep that in mind, because some people think just adjusting macros will cause rapid fat loss. In my experience, this just isn’t true. Calories also count. [/quote]

“Rapid” fat loss is not a sound decision, imo, especially for beginners/un-trained individuals.

Anything from excessive skin to dangerous/unhealthy hormone profiles.

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Keep that in mind, because some people think just adjusting macros will cause rapid fat loss. In my experience, this just isn’t true. Calories also count. [/quote]

“Rapid” fat loss is not a sound decision, imo, especially for beginners/un-trained individuals.

Anything from excessive skin to dangerous/unhealthy hormone profiles. [/quote]

He’s only 240 pounds, not 400. I’ve cut from 230 to 199 since Jan. 15, and I plan on hitting 190 by tax day. I also lift heavy at least 4 days a week. Its just not that much weight to lose and there’s no reason to fuck about doing it. Get that shit off and then start building.

Clauden, also, not to be rude, but from your avatar you look like a skinny fucker who’s never had to cut. If not, my bad and I’m sorry in advance.

Even if you are rude, or not, it really has no relevancy. Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy and not a valid way of dissecting one’s argument or opinions, tbh.

It’s funny you should mention it because I was going to touch on the fact that I never had to cut that amount of weight, but that doesn’t mean I’m oblivious to the fact that a majority of people who ask for advice are over-weight, or that my experience with family members is invalid.

Just because I’m not a oil driller, doesn’t mean I’m not aware of the dangers associated with drilling for oil.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Keep that in mind, because some people think just adjusting macros will cause rapid fat loss. In my experience, this just isn’t true. Calories also count. [/quote]

“Rapid” fat loss is not a sound decision, imo, especially for beginners/un-trained individuals.

Anything from excessive skin to dangerous/unhealthy hormone profiles. [/quote]

He’s only 240 pounds, not 400. I’ve cut from 230 to 199 since Jan. 15, and I plan on hitting 190 by tax day. I also lift heavy at least 4 days a week. Its just not that much weight to lose and there’s no reason to fuck about doing it. Get that shit off and then start building.

[/quote]

You are right, it’s not that much weight.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with stating that rapid fat loss is dangerous. He might have a friend who is 300lbs, and for him to follow the exact same path as a 240 lb person, might not be the smartest thing to do.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Also, when I am cutting, I generally follow Carb Night Solution by John Keiffer, and effectively eliminate all carbs six days a week[/quote]Why less than 20g carbs/day from your food since there is supposedly no more more ‘bonus’ from going under 20g/day.

Would you rank this carb nite food diet higher than normal ketosis, or are they close cousins?

[quote]Claudan wrote:
Even if you are rude, or not, it really has no relevancy. Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy and not a valid way of dissecting one’s argument or opinions, tbh.

It’s funny you should mention it because I was going to touch on the fact that I never had to cut that amount of weight, but that doesn’t mean I’m oblivious to the fact that a majority of people who ask for advice are over-weight, or that my experience with body-transformations is invalid.

Just because I’m not a oil driller, doesn’t mean I’m not aware of the dangers associated with drilling for oil.

[/quote]

Fair enough. But I’m 45 and I’ve done this a few times. (Maybe this speaks to my ability to maintain, but that’s another matter. I’m a powerlifting and sometimes when I’m chasing weight I eat like a horse and get fat. So whatever.)

My personal thought is cutting sucks so you might as well get some results. I like to focus on 10 or 15 pound goals, get there, then hold for a week or two and recharge so to speak and fuel up, and then keep going if I need to. Slow and steady works for some, but really, who wants to diet for a fucking year?

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
but really, who wants to diet for a fucking year?
[/quote]

No one, that is why we should encourage life-style changes instead of ‘dieting’ for 2-3 months.

[quote]wimp wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Also, when I am cutting, I generally follow Carb Night Solution by John Keiffer, and effectively eliminate all carbs six days a week[/quote]Why less than 20g carbs/day from your food since there is supposedly no more more ‘bonus’ from going under 20g/day.

Would you rank this carb nite food diet higher than normal ketosis, or are they close cousins?[/quote]

I don’t know how to rank other diets. When I’m cutting I don’t eat carbs (other than fibrous veggies like broccoli that I don’t count) except one night a week I blow it out and eat as many shit carbs as I can stomach; pancakes, cinnamon rolls, pop tarts, etc. This gets my hormone levels back up and gets me through the next week. It sucks, but it works.

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
but really, who wants to diet for a fucking year?
[/quote]

No one, that is why we should encourage life-style changes instead of ‘dieting’ for 2-3 months.

[/quote]

I’ll get to 190 and hold there as long as I want; at some point I’ll decide I want to squat over 500 pounds again and I’ll get fat for a bit. No biggy. “Lifestyle Change” is good and all, but with a little discipline you can change your body at will and move towards whatever goal you want.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
but really, who wants to diet for a fucking year?
[/quote]

No one, that is why we should encourage life-style changes instead of ‘dieting’ for 2-3 months.

[/quote]

I’ll get to 190 and hold there as long as I want; at some point I’ll decide I want to squat over 500 pounds again and I’ll get fat for a bit. No biggy. “Lifestyle Change” is good and all, but with a little discipline you can change your body at will and move towards whatever goal you want.[/quote]

The point is, a majority of people, are NOT like you. You have so much knowledge and experience with this that you understand that its just a matter of manipulating the caloric equation(this includes training for the output part),

however,

most people think losing and/or maintaining weight is a miracle/magic/product-of-tremendous-amount-of-work… which is simply NOT true.

It’s about consistency. If you consistently fall within your macro-ranges, you don’t need to give up carbs, fats, or any individual macro-nutrient.

It is true though, that the body can survive with exactly 0grams of carbs, but it cannot survive without protein or fats.

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
but really, who wants to diet for a fucking year?
[/quote]

No one, that is why we should encourage life-style changes instead of ‘dieting’ for 2-3 months.

[/quote]

I’ll get to 190 and hold there as long as I want; at some point I’ll decide I want to squat over 500 pounds again and I’ll get fat for a bit. No biggy. “Lifestyle Change” is good and all, but with a little discipline you can change your body at will and move towards whatever goal you want.[/quote]

The point is, a majority of people, are NOT like you. You have so much knowledge and experience with this that you understand that its just a matter of manipulating the caloric equation(this includes training for the output part),

however,

most people think losing and/or maintaining weight is a miracle/magic/product-of-tremendous-amount-of-work… which is simply NOT true.

It’s about consistency. If you consistently fall within your macro-ranges, you don’t need to give up carbs, fats, or any individual macro-nutrient.

It is true though, that the body can survive with exactly 0grams of carbs, but it cannot survive without protein or fats. [/quote]

I agree with your statements about the way most people go about this stuff; but it seems like aiming to be average is a piss-poor way to go about attaining a goal. The OP is 23 and has plenty of time to learn how his body works. It is, obviously, his choice, but he came to T-Nation looking for answers, not Jenny Craig, so I suspect he’s looking to be better than average. All it takes is a decision and some commitment to learn. Seriously, this time next year he could be a jacked mother fucker if he sets his mind to it.