Training Methods - Sheiko, WSB, And Others - Discussion, Arguments

Great article. 3 parts, 7 phases and 12 elements! Bench Press is complicated! You don’t bench at 1 angle, you bench press at many angles!

If you struggle off the chest, use 40%, 50% or 55% for maximum speed. To develop speed and explosive motions.

If you struggle at the top, bench with chains, rubber bands, or from different height boards.

Quote, Boris!

So is 50% bar weight plus 25% chain or rubber band weight, for maximal speed the Truth?

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I can’t answer objectively because I don’t use the rubber expanders.

Sheiko, however, is starting to adapt her training programs to today’s period. In older programs (2004-2008), for example, he didn’t write the floor press, but roughly in the last three years it’s the opposite.

Wow, I didn’t hear about that. I was wondering what happened to him. The thing is that could happen without gear too, there are different injuries that are more likely in either raw or equipped lifting but I don’t think that one is safer on your knees than the other.

In my opinion, Dietmar Wolf (his coach) may, to some extent, be behind his fatal knees injury. I think Dietmar Wolf has often been writing too intensive training.

Do you know programs of Norwegian lifters?

Here is the Norwegian training program for intermediate lifters: (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3K0ayec9D25aW1XVE1FV0oySkU/view)

Another information/guidance: (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3K0ayec9D25T3dsTFdPX0I4MVk/view) and (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3K0ayec9D25aklrLXJuSklsajg/view)

Single ply lifting will be around and has been around longer than raw. Multiply has been fading in popularity for some time now. Geared lifting is hard. Harder than raw. Ray Williams isn’t going to squat 1400-1500 with multiply gear even if he trains for it. If anyone thinks this, you haven’t done the work in gear and don’t speak “in the know”.

Gear does not make things confusing to those who aren’t in PL’ing because they don’t know any difference. If I tell someone I can bench 500lbs and they know nothing of PL’ing, are they really gonna ask me if its raw, slingshot, bench shirt? They only know what you tell them.

There’s nothing wrong with the sport. Gear does not make or break it. Gear was around long before raw with the likes of Coan, Capt Kirk, Larry Pacifico, Kaz, etc. All greats and all strong.

The difference has been poor judging. That is why I don’t care about all time records. Federation records matter more. I’m not going to compete where there is loose judging. I have more integrity than that.

We know who we respect as a lifter and who we don’t.

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I agree, the way some powerlifters bench - wide grip, big arch - is likely to cause more confusion than gear, same as deadlifting sumo.

Was Christensen’s injury due to one particular event or is it an overuse injury?

I have seen some of the Norwegian programs before, there are a few available on the Norway PL site. They are all 3 day programs though, not the 5-6 day ones that they are now known for. Looking at the workload in those programs it makes sense that they do better with higher frequency because the volume in each workout was just too much.

I haven’t lifted in gear so I’m not “in the know”, but what do you realistically think he could lift if he switched to multi-ply? Look at @Reed, he squatted 800 in wraps and then went on to squat 1000 in his first multi-ply meet. Ray squats over 1000 (to IPF depth on top of that), so 1300 wouldn’t be unrealistic with a few months of training, would it?

But that’s the thing, you do hear about the gear and whether it’s single or multi ply etc. How can one guy set a record with a 500lb bench when another guy is benching 1000? To an outsider it just seems weird. A lot of people go to gyms and lift weights, they can relate to raw lifting to a certain extent in the same way that the can relate to sports like sprinting or high jump. How high can you jump? How fast can you run 100m? When you see someone do it in under 10 seconds it is definitely impressive, and something you can relate to.

The funny thing about that, Ed Coan, Kirk Karwoski, and Bill Kazmeier have all said in interviews that they never liked gear, they only used it because you had to if you wanted to compete at the highest level of the sport. I’m not anti-gear, I respect people who lift in gear and I’m not trying to discourage anyone from it, I’m just saying in terms of mass appeal and that kind of thing it might be better to have some degree on standardization in the sport and that would include removing gear. Since raw lifting became a thing it has really taken off here in Canada and almost nobody lifts in gear anymore.

I mostly agree with that. There should be some standards for all time records to count, not just white lights and calibrated plates, but 90% of the issues with that are in the squat. Everyone except the IPF is kind of loose when it comes to squat depth, but some are certainly worse and I have heard people try to argue that you can’t judge an equipped squat the same way as a raw squat, which is obviously bullshit.

Well, the difference here is using a different technique from bodybuilders and gym rats to lift the most weight possible vs. wearing a tight elastic garment that allows you to lift significantly more than you could otherwise. You can’t realistically restrict arching because you need to arch to some degree so you don’t blow out your shoulders and there is a rule stating how wide you can grip the bar. However, there is no reason why a healthy person with no existing injuries should NEED to wear a squat/deadlift suit or a bench shirt, you can lift without them just not as much.

As for sumo deadlifts, it’s still a deadlift. It’s like wide grip vs. close grip bench or wide stance vs. close stance squat. I just see gear as something that the average person can’t relate to at all.

I don’t know exactly, but I think Christensen’s serious injury was in preparation for the world championship.

There are few available, only two basic versions (version for beginners and version for intermediate) are published. Still, it is still true that Norwegian lifters still conceal many valuable training information and knowledge.

However, Dietmar Wolf once coached the Norwegian Olympic weightlifters. This affects his current training programs.

Did you see the interview with Alexander Kirkteig (another Norwegian coach)? He gives a lot of details of their training but nothing too specific, they are keeping it secret. It’s something like the 3 day programs split up into 5-6 days.

Christensen could still come back if he’s determined, this guy had a knee replacement after a bad squat with 1300 or 1400 (at Westside) and look at him now:

By the way, Wolf is no longer the Norwegian head coach but is once again training the German team as he used to before he went to Norway.

I did’t see the conversation. However, the fact is that Norwegians have a training philosophy very similar to Russian philosophy. They have training programs based on high frequency.

But we don’t know how serious a knee injury Christensen actually has. Maybe it’s a really serious injury.

Yes you are right…

Watch this:

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Bench with your legs!

"A.V. Samsonov and co-authors conducted a study to examine the mechanics of transferring the driving impulse from the lower limbs to the barbell of a supine athlete. Competition video analysis of athletes of various qualifications (over 30 videos in total) were used to study the one aspect of bench press technique. Specifically, the driving setup and the initial bar movement off the chest were examined (pic. 1 – in the comments of this post). The resulting analysis (pic. 1) suggests the following: at the initiation of the lift, the activation of calf and quadricep muscle groups cause the knee joints to move towards the hip with simultaneous contraction (activation) of the gluteus muscles. This causes a slight lifting and driving of the hips towards the head, while the gluteus (gluteus maximus) remain in contact with the bench.
It must be noted that those athletes who used this particular movement also made a slight upward movement with the chest. This happens because the hips, spine, chest and upper back make up a rigid frame, firmly bound by surrounding muscles. Movement of the hips upwards and towards the head arches the rest of the supporting frame towards the shoulder blades, thus causing the upwards movement of the chest. Therefore, the driving impulse is transferred towards the barbell that rests on the chest of the athlete at that moment. If the athlete is able to catch (using a powerful activation of the upper body and arm muscle groups) that driving impulse – this will help to drive the barbell upwards with increased speed at the beginning of the press. If the athlete is unable to do so – that impulse is lost. Furthermore, if the hips are driven too far upwards, the gluteus muscle will lose contact with the bench and the attempt will be disqualified.
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Acquired information (A.V.Samsonov with co-authors., 2014) validates the hypothesis given by B.I. Sheiko that certain athletes with higher technical abilities, during the initial stages of the press off of the chest, seem to push off the floor towards their head. This body impulse (quantity of movements) translates via solidly structured links in the body (knees-hips-torso-spine-chest) towards the barbell during the initial press off of the chest. This allows an athlete to achieve a greater barbell velocity, which in turn will make it easier to go past any “dead spots” because the barbell will travel a greater distance before losing its velocity (it is this loss of velocity which will accurately show the start and the end of the dead spot). Not every athlete is able to engage the arms during this push off the legs and movement of the body."

@chris_ottawa @FlatsFarmer @blackchucks

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Boris Sheiko about The Bulgarian Method

Q: What is your opinion on the Bulgarian methods? According to which you should lift maximal weights.

A:First thing we need to address is that Bulgarian methods were developed by Ivan Abadjiev in Olympic weightlifting, what now is suggested to be implemented in powerlifting. It is a very peculiar topic, which is discussed online a lot. I am baffled that there are people who support these methods. I personally was a member of two junior sport training camps of USSR and Bulgarian teams. First training camp was in January 1986 in Tsakhadzor high in the mountains at the sports facility not far from Erevan. After 24 training days Bulgarian team invited us to Varna Olympic weightlifting center, where we spend 24 days as well. Our head of the team was Leonid Ivanovich Zhabotinsky twice Olympic champion. During training camp our athletes were training twice a day plus morning warm up before breakfast. Bulgarian weightlifters trained three times per day plus morning warm up. Yes, Bulgarian weightlifters more often tried weights of 90% or more. You could tell that their technique wasn’t perfect while going for such big weights. Our trainers after each set explained and gave comments on the technique. Bulgarians didn’t do that. For them it was the completing the required volume what mattered. Basically could athletes meet the planned volume or not. And it was the main goal. We witnessed once how an athlete couldn’t get the 5 required sets at 95%. He did 2 and the rest 3 he was doing for an hour, struggling to snatch the bar. It was interesting to discuss his methods with Ivan Abadgiev and he honestly confessed that lifting 90% and more can be possible only if all the recovery conditions are perfect. And we saw during gathering that Bulgarian team had personal doctor, 2 masseuses, perfect pharmacology, which he was bragging about and told us that they(Bulgarians) are ahead in pharmacology compared to USSR. That’s why I am really surprised of talks to use Bulgarian methods, especially use it on athletes who need to go to school, work and go to the gym afterwards. I think Bulgarian methods can be partially used only at training gatherings. Where an athlete won’t think about school or work, but only about training and will be properly recovering. Only upon conditions of having good rest, diet and pharmacology will athlete be able to use Bulgarian methods.

@chris_ottawa @FlatsFarmer @blackchucks

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Sheiko about Dietmar Wolf

Every single program has the right to exist if people using them are growing and winning at high level competitions. Wolf has some World Champions. It means that his programs are not bad.

Boris Sheiko: online coaching guidelines

"It’s been 3 years as I’ve been working with foreign students. I write them training plans and fix technique from videos they send me. During this time I trained a lot of athletes. And all of them are at very different levels of preparedness – physical, technical and most of all mental. I try to figure out athlete’s ambitions right away, to know immediately what his goals in the sport are. Some pursue world and European titles, some want to compete on national level, for others – improvement of their PRs. All these goals require proper communication between coach and athlete. Somebody trusts their coach 100% and ready to train heavy and often, maintain regiment, and get enough sleep and food. And some doesn’t care about proper execution of the plan, go to bed late and eats badly. And it affects performance right away.
I want to tell you about the most popular problems and misconceptions that I faced during my online coaching. Hopefully it will help present and future online students.

1. Student relies too much on coach’s plans. He thinks that due to the fact that the coach is well known and experienced, he doesn’t need to put any extra effort. He forgets that no coach while writing monthly plan can predict athlete’s state of being during third and fourth weeks. That’s why I ask my students to inform me at the end of each week about how they feel, what they could or couldn’t complete during the week. It helps me to do the immediate plan correction for the following week and fix the technique. If this the case then coach and student become coauthors of better results and new victories at the competitions.

2. Very often students do not fully execute various exercises and can even entirely alter training day, without informing the coach. The workout is completed on the report, but there is no video because “my phone/camera died”. And sometimes they are even too lazy to write the report. One week passes, second and coach has no idea of athlete’s performance, what was done and what wasn’t.

3. Some students train by themselves in their garages, without anyone around. They lift off barbell by themselves during bench press, squat without spotters. It’s not a big deal, but during heavy workouts athlete can get injured. Training by themselves is mentally difficult, much easier to train with a partner.

4. Many students try to train for multiple sports simultaneously (powerlifting, fitness, strongman, track and field, football etc.). This isn’t a winning strategy. Training this way you won’t succeed at any sport.

5. A lot of times students leave after 1-2 months training by my schemes. They just wanted to try something new, later they switch to something else. This doesn’t make sense, since no program will improve your results in 1-2 months. Other students were not patient enough to train for more than 1-2 months. Every new program requires time to adapt one’s body and muscles for a new way of training. Fixing competition movements technique mistakes also requires time.

6. Some students, who could carry out one meet prep, were leaving afterwards, thinking that if they have several months’ preparation plan, they can use it for future meet preps. This isn’t right. Every single meet prep is unique and varies by a lot of different parameters.

7. Sometimes I face athletes who don’t trust me. They are constantly trying to implement their training principles, offer a bunch of bizarre and unnecessary exercises. In this case I told them that they know better than me and they should probably train by themselves or find another coach.

8. There were occasions, when a student after failing test weight starts to justify himself that he didn’t get enough sleep, worked too much, his back aching etc. I question them: “Why didn’t you write me this in your reports?” Answer is usually silence.

9. Discipline. This word alone separates those who make an improvement and those who stay where they are. If athlete is disciplined and coach is a high-level expert, then progress is inevitable.
Dozens of thousands train for powerlifting, but only a few reach to the top – the most ambitious, goal oriented, who can bear pain, heavy workouts and trust their coach."

@chris_ottawa @FlatsFarmer @blackchucks

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I don’t really see this as a problem if you use a power rack. I have had a few near injuries due to bad spotting or lift offs on bench, better no lift off than a bad one.