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Training Methods - Sheiko, WSB, And Others - Discussion, Arguments



Converted discussion from topic (https://forums.t-nation.com/t/yuri-fedorenko-prep-comp-cycle-sheiko/238312/34)…

Yuri Fedorenko - Prep & Comp Cycle - Sheiko


I don’t understand you, or you don’t understand the context again. The beginning of the my yearly block periodization with modification has absolutely nothing to do with the Westside Barbell. Don’t look no speed sets, no speed work. Since it’s the yearly training period, the start must be cautious and gradual. It’s not logical to make the beginning difficult. Also, note that the periodization has a wave characteristic (from easy waves to demanding waves).

As far as light and medium of training days is concerned, the intention is to extend the regeneration period, as it is likely that the physical fatigue will exceeds free days.

Do you have a training log here? What are your personal records?


Also remember that I keep strictly (except for one or two exceptions) Prilepin’s tables for reps ranges. And I have to say that this is very suited to me.


I never said that your training is somehow related to Westside, what I’m saying is that despite your criticisms of dynamic/speed work you are doing things in your training that are very similar (low reps, moderate weights, multiple sets). I don’t have the scientific background to be able to judge the effectiveness of training to increase speed in a sport where competition involves lifting maximal weights which will never move fast, but perhaps there are other reasons why speed work in effective. Mike Tuchscherer wrote an article criticising speed work a few years ago but has apparently changed his opinion and now often programs submaximal work for his lifters. It’s not exactly Westside style, it looks more like what Josh Bryant has been using for years.

My other question was not in the context of speed work, but rather just as to how you perform lifts in training in general. See the part above about Compensatory Acceleration Training. The question is, especially when working with relatively light weights, do you attempt to move the bar as fast as possible (apply maximum force) or simply apply enough force to complete the lift? The theory is that applying maximum force will increase the training effect, what do you think of this?


No, I don’t have a training log online. My best lifts in competition are 217.5kg squat (no wraps), 165kg bench, and 240kg deadlift. In training I have squatted 500lbs in wraps (20lbs. over meet PR) and should be capable of a lot more, I’m new to wraps and not attempting PRs on a regular basis, I have benched 375 (10lbs over meet PR), and deadlifted 540lbs (10lbs over meet PR). In Canada we train with pound plates and compete on kilo plates, it makes things confusing.

Edit: those lifts were done in the 105kg class


We still don’t understand. The beginning of my periodization is intentionally easy because it’s an year periodization. It’s the same as when you start the engine. The engine does’t produce the fastest speed (the most demanding volume and load) right away. So, as I said last week - training volume and load will be gradually more demanding. This is how the accumulation system, or the accumulation mesocycle, should work.

In essence, you have answered yourself, I am not trying to speed, but to have the maximum power to lift the weight. I repeat that the raw powerlifting is not about speed because you will not develop the maximum strength at the top speed (this is mentioned, for example, by the mentor Zatsiorsky).

You have pretty nice personal records, especially a personal record on the bench press. I think you have a small body height and hence short bones and a short range of motion, which is ideal in powerlifting. You are in the IPF federation?

My personal records are 250 kg (conventional deadlift), 220 kg (squat) and 141 kg bench press. We are almost as strong, which is pleasing.

In my opinion, it is a pity that you do not have a training log here. I’d like to watch him, it would be interesting. Because nobody is really interesting here to watch, just my client @Glaber.


Yes, I agree with that. I don’t think that the idea is ever to use a weight that allows the highest speed because it would be too light to provide much of a training stimulus for either strength or hypertrophy. I think that part of the so-called speed work concept is that it differs from typical western-style volume training which would involve high rep sets. The problem with high reps is that it teaches you to conserve energy for the following reps, this obviously doesn’t help in the performance of maximal lifts because you are trying to put all your energy into moving the bar one time. So basically speed work is submaximal work done with short rest periods and performed as explosively as possible. Whether or not the actual speed is relevant is debatable, but with that part aside you can see that it will accomplish something.

I’m not sure if I understand you here, are you trying to apply maximum force into every rep or not?

I’m 5’9", not really short, my arms are slightly on the short side which doesn’t help for deadlift as you can see. I used to compete in CPU, the Canadian IPF affiliate, but I don’t like the way the IPF is doing things so I’m no longer going to compete in that federation. My next meet is in the CPF, the WPC affiliate. There are several other federations operating here, even WRPF has a Canadian affiliate, so I see no reason to deal with the IPF and their nonsense.


You’re the second person to ask me to start a log, maybe I should.


I’ll be the third person


I’d be interested as well.


In short, such a maximum force that is needed to lift, for example, to 80% of RM.

You measure 175 cm in metric units, are not you? 175 cm is still ideal body height. I measure 185.5 cm, which is restrictive because I have a relatively long movement path.

I have to laugh when I read your very impressive opinion on IPF. In my native land, your opinion also prevails. I absolutely agree that IPF is a very restrictive federation. Sometimes it’s embarrassing. I have read, for example, that if you come to a competition in shorts (underwear), you will not be able to compete. You must have briefs. :smiley: They also forbid to wear some headbands to capture sweat. They somewhere even restricted the choice of music.

Just do it. :slight_smile:


“Short Bones: Cantankerous Chris’ Log”

Everyone could argue with you in 1 place!


Why do variations of lifts, or use strange “regimes” (slow eccentric or isometrics or combinations) of muscular work? Why develop qualities like conditioning or mobility in excess of what you need for your sport?

Because A.S. Prilepin said to!

After he figured out how many Big/Main/Classical/Competition lifts to do, he realised That’s not very much work. So he developed “Piece Meal Programs” using different combinations of 25 special exercises for more training. These lifts specifically emphasised certain phases of the classic lifts. Yielding, isometric and combination regimes of muscle work, as well as appropriate GPP were included.

As a result
-Interest in workouts improved, which contributed to significant improvement in work-capacity of all the participants. Prilepin says they were able to increase loading of a 3 week cycle by Twofold. Twice the work.

-the wide range of special exercises in combination with different regimes of muscular work was effective in improving speed strength qualities and coordination in the snatch and clean and jerk.

  • The Peacemeal Programs enhanced the awareness of improving technique. The complex moves revealed technique errors in the classic lifts, the reasons for the errors and ways to eliminate them.


It has two fundamental reasons (someone might add another):

a) This is the natural development of evolution in sports, which is enhanced by strength training.

b) It may also be the reactions of individual peoples to other competitors. In short, the biggest European states have not lost their performance with the USA, China, Russia and other powers.

Regarding Prilepin, he helped very much with his notorious table on reps. It should be noted, however, that Prilepin’s table should work in principle for the olympic weightlifters, not for a powerlifters, because Prilepin trained the whole life of the olympic weightlifters.

Interestingly, in one interview Simmons said that the Russians are of other states in strength training 50 years ahead, and that is Simmons proud and dour American.

BTW, when I mentioned the reps, so this chart is very interesting:


It’s not only IPF that bans boxer shorts. From the USPA rulebook (I assume all IPL affiliates follow the same rules):
3.6.2 All underwear will be traditional “brief” style with no legs, also known as having a “V” cut leg opening. 3.6.3 Any lifter competing while wearing any type of supportive underwear, or underwear that is not a legless brief style, may be removed from the meet for deliberately attempting to cheat.

The thing is that some people will find extra thick and tight shorts to add a few pounds to their squat if you let them. Also, the leg part of the shorts can bunch up and make it look like you aren’t squatting to depth. I would never wear brief under any other circumstances, I suppose it’s one sacrifice you have to make to compete in PL. I’m going to do a WPC meet in April, I see nothing in their rulebook about underwear so I should be alright.

The IPF-affiliated meets I have been to didn’t play any music at all. I don’t really mind personally, from videos I have seen of other meets it looks like they often play heavy metal which is not my thing. On the other hand I have seen video from two IPF meets, one in Florida and one in Puerto Rico, where they were playing salsa music. That doesn’t seem to be conducive to lifting heavy weights, does it?


I think fear of cheating of boxing shorts is absolutely absurd, ridiculous, and tragicomic. However, the rules of a particular federation must be respected when you want to compete.

As for the selection of music, it can not be generalized. Somebody likes silence, others likes rock, for example. I personally got used to a radio in the gym.

I think the EQ powerlifting doesn’t have a future. In my opinion it will disappear. What do you think? I would say that Simmons has quite spoiled the reputation of this kind of lifting. He published many shallow squats as valid squat.


Training program of MSIC Sergey Mor in competition period during the preparation to the Men’s Russian Cup 1997. By coach Boris Sheiko.


Very interesting article about the bench press: http://sheiko-program.ru/the-bench-press-technique-article-was-published-in-the-powerlifting-usa-magazine-jan2010-p-12-13-70-71-sheiko-b-fetisov-v-lukyanov-b @chris_ottawa @FlatsFarmer


I’m not into it, I was never interested in PL until I heard that there were raw meets around here. I’m not sure if it will disappear though, WPO (which is some big multi-ply WPC meet) is coming back and people are still lifting in single ply in the IPF. I don’t exclusively blame Louie Simmons for all the high squats in equipped lifting but he certainly contributed to it. At the same time, squat depth kind of is an arbitrary thing so if one federation (or several) decides that a half squat is good enough then a record is still a record because nobody else is lifting more than that to those standards. Personally, I would like to see someone like Ray Williams do a multi-ply meet, I bet he could squat 1400-1500 if he spent some time training for it.

It might be better for the sport if equipped lifting did disappear, it makes things confusing to people who aren’t already into PL because there are too many different variables. Squatting in wraps is as far as I will go.


In my home country (European State), paradoxically, was first the EQ powerlifting than the raw powerlifting.

I admire some EQ lifters, but still I think performance is better raw. You must lift weight and not the equipment.

Is a tremendous damage that Carl Yngvar Christensen has so seriously injured his knee that he can no longer compete. He was a huge talent.