Training Longer than 45 Minutes

Yeah DSSG, I am sticking with 5x5 because it’s what I used for almost 1.5 years of my training and gave me great results in terms of strength. I ran one Coan cycle which was 3 months,and ended with a 310x1 paused bench,400+squat,and 465+deadlift on it with room in the tank for at least 10 pounds on each. It was cool and all,but I got sick near the end because for some reason I get sick training more than 3 days a week. As for the bodybuilding split, I thought about it, but decided I don’t want to jump around. I always did well with 5x5, so why fix something that isn’t broken? I don’t feel I’m ready for bodybuilding anyways(personally). I want a 315x10 Incline Bench;315x10 Front Squat;and other heavy lifts for reps before I make that change.

Also, It’s the weirdest thing…anytime I try to go to the gym 4-6 days a week,I get sick. Has always baffled me because I can have 3 brutal hard sessions 3 days a week where my whole body get’s trained over the course of ~3 hours and I’m fine…never get sick. But I will do 4 training days,1 hour each,only 1-2 bodypart each time(like Coan’s) and I constantly get sick.

I’m positive I have some kind of suppressed immune system,and the more I go to the gym,the more suppressed it becomes on consecutive days,even if the workout is less intense,and thus it makes me more susceptible to getting ill. =/

[quote]EthanETE wrote:
Yeah DSSG, I am sticking with 5x5 because it’s what I used for almost 1.5 years of my training and gave me great results in terms of strength.

[…]

Also, It’s the weirdest thing…anytime I try to go to the gym 4-6 days a week,I get sick. Has always baffled me because I can have 3 brutal hard sessions 3 days a week where my whole body get’s trained over the course of ~3 hours and I’m fine…never get sick. But I will do 4 training days,1 hour each,only 1-2 bodypart each time(like Coan’s) and I constantly get sick.

I’m positive I have some kind of suppressed immune system,and the more I go to the gym,the more suppressed it becomes on consecutive days,even if the workout is less intense,and thus it makes me more susceptible to getting ill. =/[/quote]

Then just increase your recovery time. If 1 day rest between sessions isn’t working, up it to 2. Instead of 6 sessions in 14 days, do 5.

It sounds to me like you’re getting to a point where 3x a week is a bit too much for you to recover from.

Or… do half of it earlier; take a couple hour break; do the other half later. Increase the recovery somewhere in there.

Or… address the immune/recovery issues with diet and supplementation.

The only thing that’s really clear is that what you’re doing isn’t quite working anymore, and that your body’s function is being compromised by it. Figure out how to get everything back into homeostasis. There’s lots of things to try – most of them depend on more on what you’re comfortable with than anything.

Getting back to what I was saying earlier with the 3-day split over 6 days. You can do the exercises for the day, then take a 15 minute to 3 hour break. Then do them again.

Obviously the second time isn’t going to be nearly as high intensity as the first – you’ll need to drop the weight – but over the course of the week, every muscle group should be stimulated roughly as if you were doing about 3.5 full body sessions a week.

EDIT: Or just take a week or two off from lifting completely, and try again. If you still have trouble, then start messing with recovery time.

LOL who actually worries about minor hormone fluctuations? Take as long as you need to get in a quality training session, and then go home and eat something.

Isn’t this the Ethan that everyone called a troll, but now he made a new account?? Im pretty sure it is. Not saying you’re trolling, just curious.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
Isn’t this the Ethan that everyone called a troll, but now he made a new account?? Im pretty sure it is. Not saying you’re trolling, just curious.[/quote]

Yes.

But his “reg park 5x5 got me where I am” story has stayed consistent.

Reg Park’s “How I Trained” article from 1967: The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban: How I Trained - Reg Park

[quote]My training started in earnest about September 1948, when I was 20 years of age and weighed 190 lbs. In those days I trained three nights a week and Sunday morning, and if my memory serves me well, my course was something like this:

Incline D.B Press - 5 sets of 5 reps
Flat Bench D.B. Press - 5x5
Pushups with Press - 5 x 10
Standing Barbell Press - 5x5
Press Behind Neck - 5x5
Standing Two D.B Press - 5x5
Chins - 5x8
Barbell Row - 5x8
D.B. Row - 5x8
Barbell Curl - 5x8
Incline D.B. Curl - 5x8
Central Loading Curl - 5x8
Standing D.B. Triceps Curl - 5x8
Lying D.B. Triceps Curl - 5x8
Triceps on Lat Machine - 5x8
Donkey Calf - 5 sets
Cross Bench D.B. Pullover - 5x8[/quote]

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
Isn’t this the Ethan that everyone called a troll, but now he made a new account?? Im pretty sure it is. Not saying you’re trolling, just curious.[/quote]

Yes, and he’s still full of shit.

blood serum testosterone probably decreases for a completely natural reason, nbd. I feel like your doing a lot of volume on your full body days, if your really going at those 5x5’s that would take forever

too complicated. i just wana push the weightz braa

I’ve read the same articles over the years in the muscle mags and books that all point to 45-60 minutes being the optimum time before testosterone drops and cortisol rises.

Also saw a study where sugary carb drinks will blunt the release of HGH in your heavy workouts such as squats or deadlifts. I’ve always just used water unless my sugar has dropped too rapidly towards the end of those workouts. I figure if I go another 15 minutes with protein bar or even sugary creatine mix it’s not going to kill my gains.

Cortisol is the stress hormone. It is also the age accelerating hormone because it destroys muscle and promotes fat storage. The main function of cortisol is to reduce inflammation in case of injury I read somewhere.

Constant stress produces illness mostly head and body aches. Stress and elevated cortisol levels also cause skin disorders like acne seborrhea, skin aging and hair loss.

Stress ages you it damages your genes, proteins, carbs and lipids

Chronic stress depletes tryptophan and also creating demand for niacin. One reason we increase carbohydrate consumption during stress is because it elevates tryptophan levels which leads to higher serotonin levels.

But MELATONIN is natures anti-stress hormone and it counters the effects of high cortisol.

If you are going to lift longer take melatonin and vitamin C (although it has made me sleepy at times.) These are two of the best antioxidants if you are going to lift longer than an hour.

I always caution people to use only a quarter to half melatonin tablet before bedtime the first several times you take to help you sleep as it can cause bizarre nightmares.

www.mindfully.org/Technology/EMR-Melatonin-Cherry26jul00.htm

i have taken a melatonin pill before bed for years. I have never thought of taking one before a workout…interesting.

“it can cause bizarre nightmares”
specially falling asleep squatting, the label says take only before going to sleep.
Did he mean to take melatonin pre WO?

Conservativedog - That was some wonderful information.As it is,I load up on tons of vitamin C daily; up to about 2000mg (4 pills of my brand) and I sincerely notice it helps with recovery and my immune system. Those melatonin facts are interesting!

LoRez - I’m a bit confused about what you are talking about.It seems perhaps you read one of my posts wrong. I am having absolutely no problem with the way I am training right now.I am gaining 10 pounds on every lift every month(obviously just 5 usually on Shoulder Press/Bicep/Tricep Curls),and am not stalling or getting sick. I said the sickness was occurring when I had tried training 4-6 days a week RATHER than the 3 I currently do. I love the way I train right now, I was simply concerned about the testosterone decrease in blood.

EmarosaZ89 - Yeah,it is hard,but I am well conditioned for it because I have ran the RP5x5 for somewhere around ~15+ months of my life and I steadily worked into it. I actually do recover in time and gain strength well on it hah.

Oh and that link to the routine on Page1, yeah I saw he did that in his early days(1948) when he was starting out. I actually follow the program he wrote in his published book after he already won Mr.Universe 3x.
There is a link to it on T-Nation, as T-Nation has an article about it…

'Phase Three for Bodybuilders
45-degree back extension 4x10
Front squat 5x5
Back squat 5x5
Standing barbell shoulder press 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Bent-over barbell row 5x5
Deadlift 5x3
Behind-the-neck press or one-arm dumbbell press 5x5
Barbell curl 5x5
Lying triceps extension 5x8
Standing barbell calf raise 5x25

Rest 2 minutes between sets.
Train three days per week for three months.’

Literally the only change I made was doing Incline Bench instead of Standing Barbell Shoulder Press, and Chins instead of Deadlifts[he actually only deadlifted once every week on Friday,it wasn’t every session,and eventually changed his program to have Chins in every session].

Hah I know for sure I could not take Melatonin unless it was before bed.

This is getting off topic a bit now though =p which is fine.

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
If you are going to lift longer take melatonin and vitamin C (although it has made me sleepy at times.) These are two of the best antioxidants if you are going to lift longer than an hour.[/quote]

[quote]Consul wrote:
LOL who actually worries about minor hormone fluctuations? Take as long as you need to get in a quality training session, and then go home and eat something.[/quote]

/thread

my test is dropping!!! take me home STAT

If I don’t have enough carbs in me I get whitefaced and cold 45 mins into a session. If I’ve had enough carbs beforehand then I’m fine. I just started hitting longer workouts and bring a carb powder mix with me. I’m not sure why these small things are such a big deal.

you’re on a split that neglects certain bodyparts, yet you’re worried about test fluctuations during workouts

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
you’re on a split that neglects certain bodyparts, yet you’re worried about test fluctuations during workouts[/quote]

Off topic but,
agreed with the “split that neglects certain bodyparts”(imo particularly the shoulders). Although, if you’re progressing by all means.

but to the workout time thing as long as you are eating enough, sleeping enough and take enough days off who cares. You take more off days than you workout(4 FUCKING days a week) I’m sure your testosterone has no trouble rebounding with a schedule like this.

look at it this way, there are some extreme athletes that have a decent build that workout 2-3 times a day and sometimes for a combined total of 4-8 hours a day including mma fighters, decathalon athletes shit like that. I mean I’ve known an amature strong man who works out a couple hours a day most days a week along with endurance runs and basket ball games.

You were concerned about the T drop when your workout takes longer than 45-60 minutes, and you were wondering how to deal with that with your full-body workout.

So I told you how I dealt with the situation, by transforming my 2-3x week full-body workout into a shorter split, so I could have shorter workout sessions and maintain the weekly volume and exercise selection. In a given week, the workout stimulus is the exact same as what I was doing.

Then, you said that illness is a problem if you go to the gym more frequently than 3x a week. So I addressed that.

But it sounds like you actually have no interest in doing anything to address your concern about T dropping if you workout too long. My bad for trying to help find a solution that shortened your workout (to avoid the T drop) without fundamentally changing your routine.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
You were concerned about the T drop when your workout takes longer than 45-60 minutes, and you were wondering how to deal with that with your full-body workout.

So I told you how I dealt with the situation, by transforming my 2-3x week full-body workout into a shorter split, so I could have shorter workout sessions and maintain the weekly volume and exercise selection. In a given week, the workout stimulus is the exact same as what I was doing.

Then, you said that illness is a problem if you go to the gym more frequently than 3x a week. So I addressed that.

But it sounds like you actually have no interest in doing anything to address your concern about T dropping if you workout too long. My bad for trying to help find a solution that shortened your workout (to avoid the T drop) without fundamentally changing your routine.[/quote]

You’re trying to communicate with someone who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about what anyone says, EVER! He once told me that he learned nothing from reading dozens of articles on training by CT.