T Nation

Training Longer than 45 Minutes

I know a lot of people have read the “Big Beyond Belief” book, or have actually ran it with lots of success.The program itself insists based on lots of documented scientific evidence,including biopsies and blood samples, that an individuals testosterone does indeed decrease by 80% after about 45 minutes of training.

Obviously the testosterone would increase through the day after this occurrence; but if somebody is natural and doesn’t have extra testosterone in their system through Test E/C/P etc; should the natural individual perhaps…possibly have some concern?

For people on 5-6 day training splits doing 1-2 bodyparts a day,it shouldn’t be that hard to finish in less than an hour.But for those of us that train Full Body for strength purposes(Squats,Bench,Rows,Press,Arms,Calves,Abs,etc. in the same day) - it’s literally impossible to be out in 45 minutes unless you are doing 1-2 sets per bodypart or something.

In fact,it’s not uncommon for full body training to take anywhere between 2 to 2 1/2 or even 3 hours depending on how packed the gym is.

Looking for some deep insight on this matter as it’s becoming a concern.

I’m working with Shelby on training and diet right now. I actually had this same inquiry recently, so I’ll just post his exact response:

“Don’t worry about a time . Don’t rush it, but don’t dilly-dally either.”

upper right corner magnifying glass

I recently started focusing on being out of the gym in 45 minutes after my first work set and I have noticed some new gains. On being somewhat hurried to be done, I find the quality of the workout is better. I also hit muscles multiple times a week so I think it is even more important in my case to be out of the gym quicker. Good topic though.

I don’t pay attention to holding my workouts to a certain amount of time, but they are typically 45 min-1hr 45 min depending on the muscle groups I’m working. I think doing the exercises you have planned while keeping appropriate rest times is enough without worrying about the total length of your workout.

My workouts are 40-60 minutes long. The few times I time my rest periods, they’re anywhere from 45 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on the exercise.

There was some good discussion last year (I think) on this matter here on T-Nation, some guys talking about 60min being the max they’d go in the weight room, some other guys saying that cardio after is still ok, but in the end the overreaching conclusion from the thread and the authors was the with proper supplementation and dieting (I’m specifically talking about Surge and even the whole Anaconda stacks) you could train for 60-90 minutes without loss of intensity. They had some good figures too, I tried googling and looking around but I can’t remember if it was a thread on the forums (in which case finding it would be a bitch), or an article with discussion on the comments section but you can try to find it too.

Great topic. I used to train 6 days weekly 35 to 45 min. upper lower split with good results. I recently moved to more volume that should take about 65 min. but i am in the middle knowing when i was doing high intensity 40 min. was the best i could do even past 35 min. the quality was lower.

Is lighter weight more repetitions ok to last longer and lower reps higher intensity should be somewhat faster in and out of the gym?

My workouts are about an hour usually
Just haul ass but make sure you don’t get sloppy and reduce quality
There’s a ton of personal accounts of guys saying that in the end all the matters is your intensity and your ability to eat and support that

I partitioned a full body routine into a 3 day split – same exercises, same order – and then upped the volume a little bit. This has helped me with maintaining intensity, and given me some flexibility to tack on an extra exercise or set to ‘specialize’ in something when necessary. And it keeps the workouts short, so I can work out over lunch hour or after work. Sometimes both.

Just an idea.

I might get some shit for this but I generally end up taking about, and sometimes over 2 hours in the gym. I’ve actually started doing my cardio before hand. Not for “warmup”. Not for fat loss. But to clear my mind. I take 20-25 minutes in the gym just walking on the treadmill, letting all the shit from the regular day melt off of me. The feeling is fantastic. After I step off my mind is so clear and so focused in a way that you can’t do if you simply walk in the gym and start up. It’s a mixture of nothingness and anger. I find this feeling leaves when I start looking at the clock, so I stopped doing that.

To Jskrabac and everybody else that responded with something insightful, thank you.

I feel perhaps I should describe how my full body training sessions(which I’m sure many others across this board can contest to being similar to theirs) so that people can really grasp what I am talking about. By no means am I ‘taking my time’, but I am not ‘rushing’ either; however just doing 2 exercises per LARGE muscle group,and 1 exercise per small with 3 minute rest for compounds,1.5 minutes rest for isolations comes out to a ~2-2.5hour training session.

Full Body Training[M-W-F]
2 Chest,2 Legs,2 Back,1 Shoulder,1 Bicep,1 Tricep,1 Ab,1 Calf

Incline Bench 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Front Squat 5x5
Back Squat 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Weighted Chins 5x5
Shoulder Press 5x5
Tricep Curl 5x10
Bicep Curl 5x10
Cable Crunch 5x10
Calf Press 5x20

[5x5 means 2 warmups,3 working sets; warmup sets have short break - work sets are 1.5-3minutes]

This issue of getting out in 40-70 minutes or possibly a little over or under is obviously much easier for somebody who is not training their entire body in one session.

Thanks all!

Not sure what to say here. You answered your own question. Training sessions in a typical BB split shouldn’t take too long to complete.
More strength-oriented training will typically take longer.

Personally, I train 4x week and my sessions take 2-3h. I do what you could call “powerbuilding”. I’m not lazy during these sessions and I have plenty of energy. If my test drops down the toilet after 60min, I certainly don’t feel it.

Since this a BBing sub-forum, you might want to stick to a standard BB-split and 45-60min sessions.

[quote]EthanETE wrote:
I know a lot of people have read the “Big Beyond Belief” book, or have actually ran it with lots of success.The program itself insists based on lots of documented scientific evidence,including biopsies and blood samples, that an individuals testosterone does indeed decrease by 80% after about 45 minutes of training.

Obviously the testosterone would increase through the day after this occurrence; but if somebody is natural and doesn’t have extra testosterone in their system through Test E/C/P etc; should the natural individual perhaps…possibly have some concern?

For people on 5-6 day training splits doing 1-2 bodyparts a day,it shouldn’t be that hard to finish in less than an hour.But for those of us that train Full Body for strength purposes(Squats,Bench,Rows,Press,Arms,Calves,Abs,etc. in the same day) - it’s literally impossible to be out in 45 minutes unless you are doing 1-2 sets per bodypart or something.

In fact,it’s not uncommon for full body training to take anywhere between 2 to 2 1/2 or even 3 hours depending on how packed the gym is.

Looking for some deep insight on this matter as it’s becoming a concern.[/quote]

The TRANSIENT and INSIGNIFICANT changes in hormones from workouts are just that: TRANSIENT and INSIGNIFICANT! Some of my most productive workouts have been over an hour.

Have you ever been to a powerlifting gym? Try THREE to FOUR hour workouts!

I don’t know what you’re worrying about anyway, considering you think 500 to 700 pound shrugs are a norm.

What exactly do you mean by transient and insignificant though? Based on the blood serum level testing, the testosterone drops by 80%, which seems rather significant to me.

Do you possibly have any idea or figures as to how long it takes for the testosterone to re-elevate to normal levels? If it’s just something like 30 minutes or whatnot,it doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal,but I’m just having a hard time grasping how it would be insignificant if say…it stayed that low for hours

@ EthanETE well if you are lazy enough to take so many days off maybe you should go twice those 3 days LOL

[quote]EthanETE wrote:

Tricep Curl 5x10

[/quote]
Can you describe a tricep curl? I am interested, especially if it can be done with a barbell. I have no energy loss with 2+ hour training sessions, and no negative effects. The only thing I would watch for is low blood sugar, have a protein/carb drink to suck on some, and eat something before the session, and you will likely have no negative effects. Oh by the way, what happened to doing ed coan style linear periodization, and then that bodybuilding split? Also it would be nice to see some of your awesome lifts (even if they aren’t recent)

How I’d do it.

A - Chest/Shoulders/Tris:
Incline Bench 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5
Shoulder Press 5x5
Tricep Curl 5x10

B - Back/Bis:
Barbell Row 5x5
Weighted Chins 5x5
Bicep Curl 5x10

C - Legs/Abs/Calves:
Front Squat 5x5
Back Squat 5x5
Cable Crunch 5x10
Calf Press 5x20

Schedule: ABCABC-off

Or you can pair things up and stick with three days a week. M-AB, W-CA, F-BC

@BHappy - Hah,it has nothing to do with laziness. Rather,it has always provided me the best strength gains due to high frequency[training whole body 3x a week]

@DSSG - A tricep curl is just a tricep extension with a barbell. It is the opposite of a barbell curl(elbow flexion vs. extension); I just call it a Tricep Curl because that’s what they called it in the old days and the terminology is technically still ‘correct’. It’s just an elbow extension.

@LoRez - This defeats the purpose completely of training the entire body 3x a week