[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I personally don’t think so. You can add size by adding weight to otherwise body weight movements, but not at the rate you would with barbell / dumbbell movements with the same goal. [/quote]
I don’t have enough personal experience to say otherwise, but I’m surprised by this.
I’d imagine you can add just as much size with weighted dips and pullups as any barbell lift, assuming you trained them in similar ways.
Was that what you meant?[/quote]
No I don’t think so, imo. In my experience you can add more size (mass) with DB and BB movements rather than with added resistance to BW movements. Part of the reason is because, in general and in my experience, performance drops off sharply with added weight on BW movements. For example, I might be able to do 3x20 BW dips, but if I add say 45lbs I can only do say 3x5 or something along those lines. So I have to try and find that hypertrophy sweet spot somewhere in a 45lbs range. Now take BB Row. I might be able to do 135x3x20, 145x3x15, 185x3x8, 200x3x5, etc… Point being I have a greater range of weight to get the desired result I want. I can also add things like a chest support, single arm movements, etc… to get even more of a result. BW movements are simply to limiting, imo, for adequate hypertrophy.
Strength, speed, and power are a different story.
What I will say is that it’s difficult to really compare BW and BB/DB movements. I just think if BW + resistance built mass more efficiently we would see more bodybuilders spending more time doing this. Instead we see the opposite. We can also look at BW specialist (gymnasts) and see that even the most difficult BW movements over a higher TUT can build an astonish physique, but not a large one. It would be counter productive for gymnasts to get bigger beyond a certain point.
[quote]GrapplingGuy wrote:
Well that’s really the whole question in the thread
Honestly, if the guy using the weight vest can train in the same intensity as the guy using weights, I coulnd’t tell.
Who do you think would win? And why?[/quote]
If skill is equal or slightly in favor of the weight-vest guy, barbell training guy will win.
A 2xbw squat and 2.5xbw deadlift + good grappling skills is scary.
[/quote]
This is what I was getting at.
And I doubt you’d be able to train with a vest at the same intensity as with a barbell. That would have to be a heavy ass vest.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not downplaying the use of a vest as a tool. I have one and use it often. It’s a great way to build a bigger gas tank. But it will never replace my barbell.
What grappling sport do you do, GG? I’m a judo/jiu-jitsu guy, myself.
[quote]GrapplingGuy wrote:
Well that’s really the whole question in the thread
Honestly, if the guy using the weight vest can train in the same intensity as the guy using weights, I coulnd’t tell.
Who do you think would win? And why?[/quote]
If skill is equal or slightly in favor of the weight-vest guy, barbell training guy will win.
A 2xbw squat and 2.5xbw deadlift + good grappling skills is scary.
[/quote]
This is what I was getting at.
And I doubt you’d be able to train with a vest at the same intensity as with a barbell. That would have to be a heavy ass vest.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not downplaying the use of a vest as a tool. I have one and use it often. It’s a great way to build a bigger gas tank. But it will never replace my barbell.
What grappling sport do you do, GG? I’m a judo/jiu-jitsu guy, myself.[/quote]
BJJ all day
3 hours a week gi, 2 hours a week no gi.
Doesn’t sound like you’ve “outgrown” your weight vest to get any benefit, so you’re good. Honestly, more of us should do more loaded calisthenics, and just more bodyweight calisthenics in general.
Would you say it is possible to make noticeable size gains while training only with a weighted vest?
The reason I ask is because lately I’ve been thinking that trainning with weights is not the optimal way to develop power that can be translated in other physical activities (in my case, grappling).
It seems to me that most body weight training works the body more a whole (push up variations vs. bench pressing, pull up variations vs. dumbell/barbell rows etc.).
[/quote]
You know, a lot of times when I feel like I’ve “figured something out” that apparently escaped tons of people with way more experience and knowhow, my first thought is that I’m probably missing something or just flat wrong. And that usually tends to be the case.
A conclusion I’ve come to recently - having no sport or mass goals - is that bodyweight and weight vest training improves how well you move yourself, while barbell and dumbbell training improves how well you move something else. Personally, for the time being, I am more interested in how well I move myself than I am how well I move something else.
From a strictly mass perspective (bro scientist mode engaged): muscle is built by increasing muscular requirements causing the body to build muscle to meet those requirements. Can that be done with bodyweight and weight vest? Sure, to a point you can choose movements with increasingly disadvantageous leverage and add weight to the vest.
However once you’ve exhausted those tactics, the only way to force your body to adapt is going to be with a barbell. There are neurological adaptations required as well - one “style” does not translate directly to the other - so if mass is the overarching goal then it may be better to start with a barbell, or expect a transition period where the body “learns” the barbell but does not grow.
