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Training After Knee Surgery?

hello everyone.

            i just recently had acl reconstruction with hamstring tendon and had a shredded meniscus removed. apparently when i was in highschool when i had my medial collateral lig injury it was actually my acl that was torn and i didn't have one for over 10 years,

they just recently found this out and found out that i have arthritis in my right knee in a place where my medial meniscus used to be.

     anyways, im 25 and this is really a source of serious psychological vexation for me and i was wondering if anyone has any insight into how i can still stay relatively strong with this issue. i know squats and dead-lifting days are now over....im so pissed.
 plz any input is much appreciated 

Sorry to hear about that.

Well, there is an “injectable cartilage” that was being tested/used on professional athletes. I’m not sure where that technology is now. Have you heard of it? It sounded extremely promising.

btw, I had ACL recon about 5 years ago.

  • Get your legs stronger and bigger with exercises that don’t cause pain/swelling, work on finding what exercises are right for YOU
  • Get some glucosamine
  • Train the legs once a week to start
  • Lose excess body fat
  • Don’t neglect the hamsmtrings
  • Check you ego and start REALLY light and work your way up
  • Fish Oil

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:
hello everyone.

            i just recently had acl reconstruction with hamstring tendon and had a shredded meniscus removed. apparently when i was in highschool when i had my medial collateral lig injury it was actually my acl that was torn and i didn't have one for over 10 years,

they just recently found this out and found out that i have arthritis in my right knee in a place where my medial meniscus used to be.

     anyways, im 25 and this is really a source of serious psychological vexation for me and i was wondering if anyone has any insight into how i can still stay relatively strong with this issue. i know squats and dead-lifting days are now over....im so pissed.
 plz any input is much appreciated [/quote]

Dude, I’m 24 and have been told that there is a possibility that I might be displaying signs of an arthritic knee. Hurts like hell mentally when you think about all the other people running around playing lots of sport and throwing things about.

I don’t know how to help exactly, except that I feel for you and hope that you get a good deal out of your legs yet.

You’ve had the surgery already so didn’t your surgeon and physcial therapist go over the recovery process with you? Did they not put you through physical therapy already?

I had ACL reconstruction last Wednesday. I’m almost 34 and I went over all this the both the surgeon and therapist. I will be squatting in about 12 - 18 months at most. So why wouldn’t you be able to deadlift after you fully recover?

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
You’ve had the surgery already so didn’t your surgeon and physcial therapist go over the recovery process with you? Did they not put you through physical therapy already?

I had ACL reconstruction last Wednesday. I’m almost 34 and I went over all this the both the surgeon and therapist. I will be squatting in about 12 - 18 months at most. So why wouldn’t you be able to deadlift after you fully recover?[/quote]

I have the same question. I have had three surgeries on my knee, one minor, one very major, and am able to squat and deadlift successfully now. What did your doctor say about recovery time? Exercises that you can do following recovery?

I’ve had 8 knee surgeries ranging from acl, mcl,arthros including a hamstring tear. Actually right now my legs are stronger now then they were before. The only thing is when rehabbing take it slow make sure ur making the surronding muscles stronger, hams and calves!!! squats are going to take time but make sure you really hit them one leg at a time. Hack squats wwould be best then work your way into the regular squats.

Also make sure you really work on your flexibilty, But try to stay away from heavy leg extensions for about the next 2 years until the graph heals!!!

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
You’ve had the surgery already so didn’t your surgeon and physcial therapist go over the recovery process with you? Did they not put you through physical therapy already?

I had ACL reconstruction last Wednesday. I’m almost 34 and I went over all this the both the surgeon and therapist. I will be squatting in about 12 - 18 months at most. So why wouldn’t you be able to deadlift after you fully recover?[/quote]

well the acl surgery is one thing, but having arthrits building up in the medial region is another
so your saying its ok to squat and dealift with arthritis?

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Sorry to hear about that.

Well, there is an “injectable cartilage” that was being tested/used on professional athletes. I’m not sure where that technology is now. Have you heard of it? It sounded extremely promising.

btw, I had ACL recon about 5 years ago. [/quote]

!!! thats insane!!!
thats got to cost alot though

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:
hello everyone.

            i just recently had acl reconstruction with hamstring tendon and had a shredded meniscus removed. apparently when i was in highschool when i had my medial collateral lig injury it was actually my acl that was torn and i didn't have one for over 10 years,

they just recently found this out and found out that i have arthritis in my right knee in a place where my medial meniscus used to be.

     anyways, im 25 and this is really a source of serious psychological vexation for me and i was wondering if anyone has any insight into how i can still stay relatively strong with this issue. i know squats and dead-lifting days are now over....im so pissed.
 plz any input is much appreciated [/quote]

Dude, I’m 24 and have been told that there is a possibility that I might be displaying signs of an arthritic knee. Hurts like hell mentally when you think about all the other people running around playing lots of sport and throwing things about.

I don’t know how to help exactly, except that I feel for you and hope that you get a good deal out of your legs yet.[/quote]

thx man… yeah its been hard for me
your 24 and have somewhat the same problem so you can understand my predicament
. its a real shot to the ego and to you potential activities, its caused me to view muscle training in a whole new light, latley it jsut seems somewhat pointless…i mean its good too look reasonable and to be healthy, and not be fat, i but think its so easy to get lost in weight training, because in the past other areas of my life suffered becasue of it.
but whatever, i still crawl along despite my prematurely destoredy body lol

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
You’ve had the surgery already so didn’t your surgeon and physcial therapist go over the recovery process with you? Did they not put you through physical therapy already?

I had ACL reconstruction last Wednesday. I’m almost 34 and I went over all this the both the surgeon and therapist. I will be squatting in about 12 - 18 months at most. So why wouldn’t you be able to deadlift after you fully recover?[/quote]

well the acl surgery is one thing, but having arthrits building up in the medial region is another
so your saying its ok to squat and dealift with arthritis?[/quote]

I don’t know if it is. I’m only talking about the ACL reconstruction in my case. I said “I” would be back to squatting in 18 months. I know this, because I discussed it with my physical therapist and my surgeon. My question is what did your surgeon, doctor and physical therapist say about all this?

Repairing MCLs, ACLs and torn muscles is one thing, removing a meniscus is an entirely different animal.

When you remove a meniscus, you are practically guaranteed to develop arthritis. On the other hand, ACL tears that are surgically repaired, do not require the removal of a meniscus, and are properly rehabilitated (unfortunately not always the case with the latter) are not nearly as likely to become arthritic.

Also, as much as your doctor/therapist/surgeon would like to pretend to know about arthritis, the truth is we know very little about why arthritis develops. For example, currently there is no reasonable explanation why finger and hand arthritis are so common but the wrists are almost always spared.

What we do know is that when you remove a piece of cartilage from the knee it is very likely to become arthritic.

First off: Get a Glucosamine / Chondroitin supplement along with some type of fish oil and start taking this every day. Take glucosamine/chondroitin 2x a day - morning and night (assuming you aren’t allergic to shellfish, as that’s how they make that supplement) and take a fish oil or two with each meal.

Additionally, you need to restore proprioception to the injured area since arthritis and poor quality of movement go hand in hand. I typically recommend Z-Health R-Phase DVD for this.

Finally, there are some specific strengthening exercises you can use depending on the location and pain type. Typically meniscus problems lead to poor tracking issues - I really like terminal knee extensions in this situation. A couple of sets of 20 reps before a workout is a good way to warm up. This is a recommendation POST-proprioception restoration. Re-read that and let it sink in - any strength training you do will not benefit you if you do not restore proprioception to the injured area.

After you get your rehab ducks in a row, odds are you will be able to at least rack pull and slowly lower the bar over the next month or two.

I leave you with some food for thought - a study in the 1990s took MRIs of loggers (i.e. people who cut heavy trees for a living) with no history of back pain revealed that 85% of them had degenerative disc disease and many of them had arthritic growths in the spine. Yet, none of these people had pain. If you move well, you won’t hurt. If you train properly, you won’t hurt. If you just sit around and whine about how you can’t squat anymore, then go into the gym every 2 months and try to bust out a set of squats without putting any of the recovery work in, odds are you will be in pain the rest of your life.

[quote]challer1 wrote:
Repairing MCLs, ACLs and torn muscles is one thing, removing a meniscus is an entirely different animal.

When you remove a meniscus, you are practically guaranteed to develop arthritis. On the other hand, ACL tears that are surgically repaired, do not require the removal of a meniscus, and are properly rehabilitated (unfortunately not always the case with the latter) are not nearly as likely to become arthritic.

Also, as much as your doctor/therapist/surgeon would like to pretend to know about arthritis, the truth is we know very little about why arthritis develops. For example, currently there is no reasonable explanation why finger and hand arthritis are so common but the wrists are almost always spared.

What we do know is that when you remove a piece of cartilage from the knee it is very likely to become arthritic.

First off: Get a Glucosamine / Chondroitin supplement along with some type of fish oil and start taking this every day. Take glucosamine/chondroitin 2x a day - morning and night (assuming you aren’t allergic to shellfish, as that’s how they make that supplement) and take a fish oil or two with each meal.

Additionally, you need to restore proprioception to the injured area since arthritis and poor quality of movement go hand in hand. I typically recommend Z-Health R-Phase DVD for this.

Finally, there are some specific strengthening exercises you can use depending on the location and pain type. Typically meniscus problems lead to poor tracking issues - I really like terminal knee extensions in this situation. A couple of sets of 20 reps before a workout is a good way to warm up. This is a recommendation POST-proprioception restoration. Re-read that and let it sink in - any strength training you do will not benefit you if you do not restore proprioception to the injured area.

After you get your rehab ducks in a row, odds are you will be able to at least rack pull and slowly lower the bar over the next month or two.

I leave you with some food for thought - a study in the 1990s took MRIs of loggers (i.e. people who cut heavy trees for a living) with no history of back pain revealed that 85% of them had degenerative disc disease and many of them had arthritic growths in the spine. Yet, none of these people had pain. If you move well, you won’t hurt. If you train properly, you won’t hurt. If you just sit around and whine about how you can’t squat anymore, then go into the gym every 2 months and try to bust out a set of squats without putting any of the recovery work in, odds are you will be in pain the rest of your life.[/quote]

Thx for the input, ive battled with this condition for the past nearly 2 years id say
i did as much hamstring and glute training along with mobility to help out and stopped runnihng and started long distance biking. it want until fall last year that the doc said id need surgery after an mri.
Preconception you say? im aware of coodination and how certain muscular , skeltal and nervous issues can effect the body and joints, but im going to have to do some more research into that term. i will talk to my therapist next time i go see them and discuss this at length with them.
Again thank you for the constructive help

preconception is a term generally used by women planning pregnancy… lol. the word I’m talking about is proprioception.

Basically, your body uses the proprioceptive system to coordinate movements. When you have a joint that hasn’t been moved much over the past few years due to pain, you get a couple adaptations:

  1. mechanoreceptors (indicate joint position and movement to the cerebellum / brain stem / cortex) are pruned (destroyed) off due to a lack of use.

  2. nociceptors (pain receptors) increase in number due to the constant stimulation of pain.

  3. areas of the brain dedicated to coordinating knee movements will atrophy. other brain areas will take over this space.

Odds are your avg PT will know nothing of this, because PT school is terrible lol. I don’t think there’s any specialty that is quite as bad as traditional PT school. Most PT techniques taught in school are just sort of hand-me-down techniques over the past several decades and aren’t very well entrenched in research. Most of the techniques therapists are taught are based on the idea that brain plasticity doesn’t even exist (it does).

If your PT is on top of his game (which I doubt based on your confusion), maybe he’ll be of help with this matter. It’s hard to find a good PT in the states… I bet it’s even tougher where you live.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
You’ve had the surgery already so didn’t your surgeon and physcial therapist go over the recovery process with you? Did they not put you through physical therapy already?

I had ACL reconstruction last Wednesday. I’m almost 34 and I went over all this the both the surgeon and therapist. I will be squatting in about 12 - 18 months at most. So why wouldn’t you be able to deadlift after you fully recover?[/quote]

well the acl surgery is one thing, but having arthrits building up in the medial region is another
so your saying its ok to squat and dealift with arthritis?[/quote]

I don’t know if it is. I’m only talking about the ACL reconstruction in my case. I said “I” would be back to squatting in 18 months. I know this, because I discussed it with my physical therapist and my surgeon. My question is what did your surgeon, doctor and physical therapist say about all this?

[/quote]
he said that i have arthritis building up in the meidal region . your not as bad off as you think

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Sorry to hear about that.

Well, there is an “injectable cartilage” that was being tested/used on professional athletes. I’m not sure where that technology is now. Have you heard of it? It sounded extremely promising.

btw, I had ACL recon about 5 years ago. [/quote]

!!! thats insane!!!
thats got to cost alot though
[/quote]

I’m not sure about cost - but, you know, if it works the price will come down over time. My father is looking into getting it - and he’s an 85 year old dude. They’re doing it at Mass General here in Boston apparently.

Another thing you might try is boosting your GH status via peptides (GHRP-6, Ipamorelin) to encourage cartilage thickening/growth; or direct HGH injections into the knee.

[quote]
I leave you with some food for thought - a study in the 1990s took MRIs of loggers (i.e. people who cut heavy trees for a living) with no history of back pain revealed that 85% of them had degenerative disc disease and many of them had arthritic growths in the spine. Yet, none of these people had pain.[/quote]

wow.

nice post btw.

OP, before you give up all hope, I would consider you paying someone like Poliquin or Cressey for a consult at the very least. These guys have been known to bring athletes back from worse, maybe they can do some good for you.

[quote]Xab wrote:
OP, before you give up all hope, I would consider you paying someone like Poliquin or Cressey for a consult at the very least. These guys have been known to bring athletes back from worse, maybe they can do some good for you.[/quote]
…whhhhaaaa,…
so i can actually pay one of them.???
thanks for the advice, but how much would that cost , thousands?

[quote]Arthritisboy wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:
OP, before you give up all hope, I would consider you paying someone like Poliquin or Cressey for a consult at the very least. These guys have been known to bring athletes back from worse, maybe they can do some good for you.[/quote]
…whhhhaaaa,…
so i can actually pay one of them.???
thanks for the advice, but how much would that cost , thousands?[/quote]
id definatley do that if its actually possible