T Nation

Training 5 Years, Not Seeing Results. Considering SARMs

Hi, I am working out from the past 5 years consistently. I lift heavy weights (as per my potential) but I am not seeing any physical results. Following are my diet and workout details:

Food type: Vegetarian and eggs

Macro: P-164g, C-282g, F-90g (2600 calories)

Testosterone Total: 516

Testosterone free: 63

Height: 5 feet 9 inch

Weight: 170lb

Workout 3 times a week-1 hour

Bench: 175 lb

Squats: 205 lb

Deadlift: 250lb

Workout and body images in attachment

I am very disappointed with my body. I never smoked, I don’t drink, no drugs of any kind ever. I am now considering going on a SARM cycle (Rad140). I am a total new-be for sarms. Please suggest.

If you are only going to lift weights 3 times a week, do something fully body so that you can get more stimulus to promote muscular growth.

Some awesome 3x a week programs for getting bigger and stronger include Super Squats, 5/3/1 Building the Monolith, and DoggCrapp. I would save DoggCrapp for a little bit later, and run Super Squats and BtM before that.


I’m no doctor, but out of curiosity what is the ref range units for FT? Is it ng/dl or pg/ml. A FT of 63pg/ml is on the low(er) side.

As to your body, you clearly have muscle mass underneath excess body fat. Everyone responds differently to different varieties of training stimulus.

Are the lifts posted up 1RM?

Why? These drugs have virtually no clinical data associated with them. Anecdotal reports and what little literature that exists would suggest they fuck up lipids royally, akin to the harshest of anabolic steroids.

Are SARMS still even legal? I know this is why some turn to SARMS (due to purported legality, wherein they aren’t even “legal” for human consumption, rather they can/could be sold as ‘research chemicals’)

How old are you? Perhaps a comprehensive check up through the means of a medical practitioner may be in order. Or perhaps there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you, rather you need to make the correct tweaks/adjustments to your training regime.


Like Pwn said, you need to change your programming. You are nowhere near ready for a cycle of any kind, and SARMS are mostly unresearched on humans. Especially at the doses people on the internet are taking. If you’re going to take anything, take testosterone, which has been researched to death and has known short and long-term side effects.

His program recommendations are great. I’m also a fan of the programs in 5/3/1 Forever. Buy it and run the Beginner Prep School program if you don’t like the looks of BtM or Super Squats.


how much can you squat/bench/deadlift/OHP (or log press) nowadays? Weren’t you lifting gargantuan numbers like 800-900lbs on the deadlift?

How do you manage to stay free of serious injuries when competing?

I have no idea. I haven’t maxed since 2012. I’ve never lifted 800-900lbs on the deadlift. My best was a 650lb pull.

I don’t. In 2015, I ruptured my ACL, tore my meniscus and fractured my patella on a yoke event in a competition and required surgical reconstruction. The reason I took up strongman was because I was too injured from combat sports, after having dislocated my right shoulder 6 times and tearing the labrum in it (also requiring surgical reconstruction).

And I pick up injuries that don’t require surgery as well. I tore my hamstring pretty good around April, which resulted in me tearing something in my groin/abductor a few weeks later as a result of compensating. And then I tore something in my shoulder/bicep around Sept getting dumbbells in place for incline pressing.

still very impressive.

1 Like

Hey, it’s very good that you are consistent that’s very important, as you’re gonna learn what works and what doesn’t. But if you’ve been consistent for 5 years and these are your results than I can relate. In my first 5 years of training I got nothing in regards to looks out of it. I eventually learned the hard way what to do and what not.

I got some questions for you that may fix your problems:

  1. In These 5 years how often did you cut and how often and long bulk?

  2. How many calories do you eat during gaining muscle phases and losing fat phases?

  3. How much weight did you gain on the big lifts?

You are in a difficult position as you are skinny fat. The question always is: to bulk or to cut first?

The answer in my opinion is cut and then lean bulk (minor calorie surplus).

I’d suggest going to 2200-2300 calories and stay there for 12 weeks, then see where you’re at. If you’re lean then up the cals to 3000 and do a program like starting strength or 5/3/1 (5/3/1 is in my opinion better for more experienced guys as the progress is slower than necessary).

Another way would be to stay slightly below maintenance and recomp but that takes a lot of time. The classic cut bulk is a sure way to reach your goals.

I hear this frequently and I wonder how people are running the programs to progress so slow. Everyone I know that has run 5/3/1 has progressed as fast as possible on the programs, and Jim Wendler reports similar stories with young athletes.

I’ve run it myself and it has a few reasons:

  1. You are only squatting heavy once a week (comparison with SS: 3 times per week, other lifts two times)

  2. You are only increasing the weight once a month (SS: every workout.)

For point 2 the argument can be made that the last set is an AMRAP set and so it is heavy enough. Fair. But I’m not a fan of doing an AMRAP on Squats, deadlifts or bench except for when the weight is really really light which here it isn’t.

I guess it also comes down to goals. In my opinion a weak person should become strong first. That’s why I’m recommending SS. With 5/3/1 and the 5x5 template (forgot how it’s called) you are doing a lot of volume but it’s not heavy and therefore not optimal for the goals I think are best for a newbie.

If one is already decently strong (over the newbie gains), I think 5/3/1 is very good.

On some 5/3/1 programs, yeah. On others, 2 or 3x a week.

You should be increasing the weight between sessions. You increase the TM once a month, yeah, but between week 1 and 2 there is a noted increase in most programs.

And even then, the rate that the TM progresses shouldn’t impact the rate that the TRAINEE progresses. Hell, I’ve progressed while LOWERING my TM.

1 Like

You increase the weight and decrease the reps. Then week 3 you set a new RM off which you base the following month. So you increase the weight or the max once a month. With starting strength you increase your 1 RM every workout. This is possible for a newbie and therefore more efficient.

The question is how you judge that. My objective for newbies is solely strength and correct technique.

Yes I know there’s many 5/3/1s.

Not often. Especially if you’re using 5s progression. If not, you’re going for PR sets, which means you’ll do as many as you can. I’ve had training cycles where I moved more on the 3s week than I did on the 5s.

This is not the case for any program created by Jim Wendler. Your TMs go up by a static amount at most, or stay the same, or are reduced. You don’t let performance on the final week dictate progress on the next cycle.

By chance, are you meaning to discuss the NSuns 5/3/1 program that has gained popularity on the internet?’’

That is on you, but there are TONS of ways to measure progress. Hell, “strength” in and of itself leads much room. Strength at what rep range? 1rm? 5? 8? 20? To say nothing of evaluating muscular growth, improved muscular endurance, improved bar speed, improved conditioned via shorter time between sets, etc etc.

It’s the issue I see with the remark that “5/3/1 progresses slower”: it only does so if you limit the definition of “progress” to fit neatly into the niche Mark Rippetoe carved out to sell Starting Strength.

I am happy you know that :slight_smile:

Oh you’re right. You increase by 5 %. Doesn’t change the math though.

I already gave my opinion on this.

See, it would be easy if you just did 5 every workout and then increase the weight so you don’t need to do that. Is that better for a beginner? I think definitely. I agree with Rippetoe on beginners. You can make it more complicated than it needs to be, yes. But Rips Programm is simple and has the results guaranteed. You can do what you want. OP can do what he wants. That SS is the most simple and efficient Programm for beginners is just my opinion on the matter. I don’t dislike wendlers Programms either. I’d just start with SS for 6 months and then move to 5/3/1. That is in my estimation more effective.

The only reason I thought of sarms because my body is pretty much the same from the past 5 years. There is no definition, no composition. I tried intermittent fasting, low carb diet, higher protein diet. I worked out 6 days, 5 days, 4 days and now 3 days. Its like mai body refuses to acknowledge anything, it is stuck in a shell. The least I want is my belly gone. I even did swimming and cardio on my off days but still nothing.

I am 38 years old, there is survival supplement opposite to my street that sells sarms and pct :stuck_out_tongue:

I did full body workout for almost 3.5 years. Just last month switched to the routine (inthe image).


It’s 5lbs for the upper body lifts: 10lbs for the lower body lifts.

I find that lots of things that are easy to do aren’t the best thing to do when one’s goal is to get bigger and stronger :slight_smile:

My point of discussion is that I do not feel you understand how 5/3/1 works to be able to render an evaluation of it.

It is unhelpful to provide poor background information when asking for help my dude.

Try the programs that have been suggested.

Sure will do, thank you.

You need a consistent diet. You need a consistent training program. And your body is stuck in a shell because what you’re stimulating it with isn’t stimulating it.

You need LISS at least three days a week. You need to eat a lot less. And you need to do serious PPL. Three days a week is what personal trainers wish they could get their rich, unsatisfied clients on, because it’s the absolute bare minimum. PPL six days a week. No excuses. And it needs to be an actual intense workout every single time. You may believe that you’ve been trying hard, but your pictures tell another story. That’s fine. Don’t be discouraged. You get to change things if you want to.

1 Like