Trainers Talking Shop

Off Topic
21

[quote]Angrygoat wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
But, there are aspects of strength sports that can definitely benefit the average Mrs. Jones client…

Two of the neatest things in the world…or in the business anyway…

  1. Watching little-bitty women deadlift their body weight + for the first time.

  2. Teaching middle-age women the dumbbell snatch [that’s my personal little “sneak-in-the-OL-aux-lifts-as-cardio” trick; “without the dishonor of I-robics,” (lots of time with the Pavel dvd’s lately)].

[/quote]

both very cool indeed.

but i gotta add: seeing my “normal” female clients evolve into doing honest pullups - something most people in a typical gym never do - practically brings a tear to my eye. i don’t know if there’s anything more empowering than that.

22

I agree with this 100% There is nothing better than seeing a formerly out of shape career woman or housewife knocking out real pull ups. It really makes my job worth doing. Or hearing about their (reunion/wedding/party) when the “hot ones” were fat and my clients were fit and got all the attention. Just makes it worth working.

[quote]Tomfu wrote:
but i gotta add: seeing my “normal” female clients evolve into doing honest pullups - something most people in a typical gym never do - practically brings a tear to my eye. i don’t know if there’s anything more empowering than that.
[/quote]

23

i agree with a lot of the stuff mentioned already - especially the last few posts

not only getting clients do do good chins and dips but adding weights to their dip belt just makes me well up inside !

as with most others i like to stick to the basics ie squats and deads and the bodyweight stuff like chins, dips , press ups etc then introduce unilateral stuff , power stuff like one rep maxes or high volume work - anything thats totally outside of the 3 x 10 that they are used to

must admit i get a lot of satisfaction from the skinny guys bulking up as i know it can be hard to get those calories in - plus with them being lean with veins like ropes , any muscle they put on can be seen straight away

getting my girlfriend off the treadmill and seeing her drop 10 % bodyfat with diet and weights while getting strong enough to do dips with 20 kg added and a 100kg squat meant as much for me as it did for her

being only 5 foot and 50 kg we hope to get her involved in powerlifting in the near future !!

good to see AC posting - lots of respect

neil mct - full time personal trainer in belfast ireland

24

i hate to jinx it, but a solid thread like this where information can be shared among professionals in a repectful, thoughtful manner is long past due.

that being said, if you’ve been training for a while, here’s yet another topic to discuss: what are the biggest challenges you see that keep your clients from ultimately reaching their goals?

my two cents: diet. i use to think the equation was 50/50 (with regard to diet and exercise - and for some people it may be), but the more i read, and the more i experience both thru experimentation on myself and with my clients, i’m beginning to believe it’s much closer to 80/20 or even 90/10.

i have plenty of people who workout consistently and at a pretty high intensity, but eat relatively poorly (or just not well enough) and only achieve limited results or ultimately plateu.

and then i have folks who may not work out as often, but are much more adherent about sound nutritional principles and they seem to make much more progress. (and i’m speaking primarily about those folks who want to improve body composition as that seems to be my clients’ main goal, regardless of how they word it [e.g., lose weight, tone up, lean out, etc., etc., regurgitating all the media buzzwords they’ve been fed, which, in the end, all come down to losing body fat and maintaining or increasing lean body mass]).

personally, i’ve also been pretty fat and fairly active, and pretty lean and much less active. again, the only real difference was making sure my diet was in check. for me, at least, that seems to be key.

coming in a close second is intensty during workouts. and number three on my list is sleep. i’m still amazed how many folks are chronically sleep deprived despite the fact that it reeks havoc on their hormones and ultimately disturbs their daily function.

25

[quote]Tomfu wrote:
what are the biggest challenges you see that keep your clients from ultimately reaching their goals?[/quote]
Good question, man.

I think it’s diet and consistency.

I totally downplayed the nutrition-aspect of fitness in my first year or two as a trainer, and I wasn’t getting the results I should’ve. but, as the saying goes, you can’t out-train a crappy diet…hardocre in the gym, pussy in the kitchen, or however you want to phrase it. You can absotively, posilutely unravel a training program by not following through with a food plan.

The second point is consistency. I’d rather have a client tell me, before our first session “Look, I can really only workout twice a week.” Instead of promising me 5 days and fizzling out halfway through. I make it a habit of telling them that I only need 4 days a week, at most, as a commitment (with 3 days being more likely).

This also ties into making each session interesting. I want to find out what exercsies they actually “enjoy” doing. Of course, the best way to do this is by letting them sample a bunch of exercise variations along the way. I’ve discovered, more often than not, that middle aged men like doing power cleans, all women like doing sumo deadlifts, and everybody loves hitting the hand pads.

True enough, but I think a client’s sleeping habits are one of the least controllable aspects for a trainer. It’s usually hard enough to get them to schedule a recurring session 2 or 3 days a week. Telling them when to go to bed and when to wake up is a little too “drill instructor” for me. Sure, we can educate them as to how important sleep and recovery is, but the decision is up to them.

Heck, I think I remember reading that DeFranco and Waterbury get less than 6 hours of sleep a night. So, when you’ve got to relax the rules on something, I’m okay with letting clients sleep when they want.

26

The idea for me as a trainer is to have my client leave me as an independant person in a gym who can find the results themselves. I try to emphasize progression to them. Going from a leg press to a squat for example, takes a while. Same with changing load parameters explaining why we are doing what we are doing. Furthermore, I takes them about 6 weeks to really get a motor pattern down, I only need to see them once a week for 3 months ususally, if the training is indeed results oriented, then 2-3 sessions a week for however long, followed by once a week sessions.

27

Agreed 100% I have many clients who have extremely demanding professional lives, and getting them into the gym 2 - 3 days a week for that hour is hard enough. I simply can not place even more excessive demands on them and manage to keep them improving and to maintain them as a client.

Also, I believe that if a clients normal sleep schedule is 6 hours a night, then they should be able to make adequate progress without disrupting their normal schedules. This also adds to their ability to adhere to the program, and to keep them motivated.

Training should be a benefit to their health, a point of pleasure in their daily lives, and something they look forward to. Making it an added chore, in an already hectic schedule is setting yourself up for failure.

[quote]Minotaur wrote:
True enough, but I think a client’s sleeping habits are one of the least controllable aspects for a trainer. It’s usually hard enough to get them to schedule a recurring session 2 or 3 days a week. Telling them when to go to bed and when to wake up is a little too “drill instructor” for me. Sure, we can educate them as to how important sleep and recovery is, but the decision is up to them.

Heck, I think I remember reading that DeFranco and Waterbury get less than 6 hours of sleep a night. So, when you’ve got to relax the rules on something, I’m okay with letting clients sleep when they want.[/quote]

28

[quote]X-Factor wrote:
…I only need to see them once a week for 3 months ususally, if the training is indeed results oriented, then 2-3 sessions a week for however long, followed by once a week sessions.[/quote]

This is an interesting point. How long, on average, do you keep steady watch over your clients? How long until these little birds are ready to be pushed out of the nest?

My longest client was just about 2 years, averaging 2 sessions a week with me, and I’d train 2 of his kids once a week. I’ve had others where we’d do 4 sessions a week for 3 months, then drop down to once a week for another few months. I like this set-up. They’re working independantly, but I’ve taught them the importance of grabbing an occasional session to either revamp their protocols or refresh their technique.

I had one gym manager who boasted that he’s had one client stick with him for over 13 years, always training together multiple times per week. I think that’s extreme. The client wasn’t an athlete, just an average weekday warrior, and either the trainer wasn’t empowering him enough to step out on his own, or the trainer was milking him for what he could.

29

[quote]Minotaur wrote:

I had one gym manager who boasted that he’s had one client stick with him for over 13 years, always training together multiple times per week. I think that’s extreme. The client wasn’t an athlete, just an average weekday warrior, and either the trainer wasn’t empowering him enough to step out on his own, or the trainer was milking him for what he could.[/quote]

i can see your point as i would agree that i like to train people to go and do it themselves - it means they progress without even seeing me and their praises bring me new business

but - maybe the guy enjoyed the company of a trainer three times per week and simply didnt want to train alone - his routine had become a habit and suited both him and the trainer - maybe the trainer had suggested that he go it alone and the client was happy to carry on with the sessions etc

30

to be clear, i don’t mandate or dictate how much sleep each individual client should have. my job is to educate my clients the best i can on all issues related to health and wellness. and based on my personal experience, diet, workout intensity and quality sleep are the things that seem to be lagging most on those individuals who don’t seem to make progress. on the other hand, the ones who do make progress and reach their goals always seem to have those elements in order.

31

[quote]Tomfu wrote:
…diet, workout intensity and quality sleep are the things that seem to be lagging most on those individuals who don’t seem to make progress. on the other hand, the ones who do make progress and reach their goals always seem to have those elements in order.[/quote]

This is true but I’m just saying, from my experience, that of those three aspects, I can have the least influence over their sleep, so it’s almost not worth worrying about.

32

3 weeks without a discussion? This thread is too good to let fade away (I think so, anyway)

So, question to the group…“Our” opinion of providing free sessions. I know, right off the bat, it’s easy to dismiss them as wasted opportunities for money. But Ithink, if used with discretion, they can be a useful marketing or incentive tool.

For example, right now I’m trying to break into a cerain sports niche. So, I’ve contacted a prominent local athlete who already has the respect of his peers, and I’m in the middle of putting him through a no-charge 8-week (twice a week) program.

At the end, he’ll be giving me a testimonial to go on my site and in future marketing material, plus he’ll help to spread my name by word-of-mouth and “word-of-eye” (hehe, I think that’s a phrase I just came up with to represent the visual changes he’s going through that make people say “Hey, you look good. You been working out?”)

So…what’s the general consensus on “giving away” training sessions here and there, in the expectations of having it benefit you in the long run?

33

I’ve had marginal results with these types of arrangements.
Here are the problems I’ve encountered:

  1. The client receives the training, but if they don’t fulfill their obligation (they drop-out, don’t follow instructions, etc.)…then I just gave away training.

  2. People tend to over-estimate their influence with others.

  3. If the client fails to follow instructions (namely diet…fat loss is what my client base notices most) then it can reflect poorly on me and hurt business.

  4. In general I’ve found that if a client doesn’t value the training enough to pay they probably aren’t that committed to it.

  5. IMO, a non-paying client has to bring in at least six payers to make the deal financially worthwhile for me.

Of course…on the otherhand…these arrangements can produce a string of payers.

34

I think its good to have a basic idea of what you are going to do with different clients. For example most women would fall into my volume area. They are weak enough that they wont respond well to a high intensity because they cant work out at a high intensity. So for them it is a steady diet, of volume, which changes but its always fairly high. Then most men fall in the low lactate threshold category. They are usually decently strong with absolute strength but they cannot clear lactate and end up using much, much less weight than they would be using if I was working strength.

For males or females I like to use the best bang for your buck exercises. Often times I feel that if we are to get anything out of strength training we should be using the biggest muscles in the body and do the most work we can. Some of my favorites are:

pushups
leg presses
lunges
squats
squat presses

Anything other than these exercises and the individual usually uses a weight so light that even though it is tough for them, it is just not enough work.

35

Those are some good point, goat. Like I said, I’m trying to position myself within this niche as the go-to coach, and the client I took on (at no charge) is the co-captain of the team. So, in terms of leveraging his reputation, I’m fairly certain his 'stamp of approval" via testimonial will carry some weight.

The only thing I am nervous about is his adherance when I’m not in front of him, especially since we only meet twice a week. But he seems to have been doing his “homework assignments” with no problem. We’re 2 weeks into it, and have another 6 to go, so I’ll know how it turns out by December.

Shadowzz4, it almost sounds like you focus on the clients weak point (lactate threshold, strength, etc.), and emphasize that until it becomes more like a strong point. Sounds like a pretty good plan.

36

Something else (unrelated to the above topic) that I wanted to mention. I’ve gotten into the habit of reading a few fitness-related blogs on a regular basis. I was reading Alwyn Cosgrove’s a few days ago, and, no joke, it was the first time I actually said “Oh shit” out loud after reading anything.

http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2006/10/project-management-future-of-personal_11.html

[i]"A client wants to lose 20lbs of fat? The fee is $2500, whether it takes me ten weeks or four weeks. Client wants to bench press 200lbs and is currently at 150lbs? The fee is $1500, regardless of how long it takes…

If you can get a result faster than anyone else - you are worth more. Same reason a cross country flight costs more than a cross country bus ride - it gets people to their goal faster."[/i]

Just the fact that this is such a unique take on something that has been a habit was so interesting to see. Trainers get paid by the hour. Why? Because, well…that’s just the way it goes. Water’s wet, the sky is blue, and trainers charge by the hour.

But the whole concept, while it would certainly take some work to iron out the details, was just such a head-trip to read because I had honestly never considered the possibility before.

37

Actually yea that is a really good idea, it is tough because it has to be the honor system to some degree, its not your fault if your clients are eating crap and not doing what they should be…

As for your other post yea I will work on a client’s weak point if it falls into one of these categories:

-Interfering with the clients ability to build or maintain muscle
-Interfering with the clients ability to have an energy deficit
-Interfering with the clients ability to perform a certain amount of work in a certain amount of time

If their weak area is that they are really slow or dont have a strong back or have weak abs, I will work on that, but it be secondary to anything that directly effects the first three points

38

[quote]Colucci wrote:
So…what’s the general consensus on “giving away” training sessions here and there, in the expectations of having it benefit you in the long run?[/quote]

“Early to bed, early to rise and ADVERTISE!”

“Advertising” is more than just running ads in local papers or distributing flyers. Giving out free workouts is no different than paying OUT to a newspaper for a display ad.

Word of mouth in this industry is key. I just trained a very good hockey/basketball player for half my usual in-home rate. He really enjoyed the routine we laid out and can only improve in his sports from it. If you know “hockey parents” and even “football parents” you know they will pay whatever you ask (within reason) if you can help thier kid shine.And you know the high school sports community is a tight one.

I can just see it now; “Hey, Matt just got a routine to improve his game from (me). He was nice and sounded like he really knew his stuff.” “Oh, yeah? give me his number, I’ve been wanting to get my kid to train” and so on.

I would’ve done it for free if they asked me to.

39

[quote]Colucci wrote:
Something else (unrelated to the above topic) that I wanted to mention. I’ve gotten into the habit of reading a few fitness-related blogs on a regular basis. I was reading Alwyn Cosgrove’s a few days ago, and, no joke, it was the first time I actually said “Oh shit” out loud after reading anything.

http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2006/10/project-management-future-of-personal_11.html

[i]"A client wants to lose 20lbs of fat? The fee is $2500, whether it takes me ten weeks or four weeks. Client wants to bench press 200lbs and is currently at 150lbs? The fee is $1500, regardless of how long it takes…

If you can get a result faster than anyone else - you are worth more. Same reason a cross country flight costs more than a cross country bus ride - it gets people to their goal faster."[/i]

Just the fact that this is such a unique take on something that has been a habit was so interesting to see. Trainers get paid by the hour. Why? Because, well…that’s just the way it goes. Water’s wet, the sky is blue, and trainers charge by the hour.

But the whole concept, while it would certainly take some work to iron out the details, was just such a head-trip to read because I had honestly never considered the possibility before.[/quote]

That’s a good one. I like the concept but for the sole reason that I don’t get people with such narrow goals.

My motocross guy couldn’t care less about fat% as long as he’s lean enough to ride well. His bench, same thing.

I’m sure as heck not going to promise to take 25 seconds off his best lap times. And my soccer guy; I cannot promise him more goals. Maybe a lower 40 time but even that doesn’t mean he’ll be a better soccer player.

I’m sure there are people that that’d work with, I just don’t train any of them.

40

[quote]Colucci wrote:
…The only thing I am nervous about is his adherance when I’m not in front of him…[/quote]

This was exactly the situation I found myself in. Old boy was running at 120%…while I had my eyes on him…after the training session he clocked-out. So we just weren’t producing the results we wanted. This put undue stress on the working relationship because, as you know, my income was tied up in his results.

Don’t let me talk you out of it though. I’ve just had less than acceptable results with these “train for promotionals” arrangements thus far.

This is always the gamble; the client could open up a whole new client base for you or he could sap you for free training.

I say go with your instincts.

Here’s another option; the client ponies-up the fees in advance and if they are able to produce some type of paying referral to your satisfaction they will receive a refund. That way both ends of the deal are secure. I realize this doesn’t quite fit your situatiuon, but you could do a variation of it to eliminate the “stress issues.”