T Nation

Train for 10K Without Losing Muscle?

Hi Guys,
I’m sure I’m not the only one here who has done this, so I would appreciate some shared experience.
I want to run a 10K on the beach on April 4th, but I don’t want to lose muscle to train for it.
I am thinking that if I keep my training runs to under 45 minutes that I can avoid going catabolic.
Also, I plan on drinking a shake consisting of:

24 grams whey
24 grams gatorade powder
2 grams beta-alanine
2 grams creatine mono

about 15 minutes before running. Do you think this is a good plan?

Thanks.

That’s quite a bit of consume close to running. I would get a side-sticker (side-stitch to some) that way. I’d probably just take some bcaa tabs w/ some gatorade powder prior, and then a shake afterwards. B-alanine is a good idea, as is creatine if you’ve had success with it in the past, but you might want these two a little bit more than 15 minutes prior.

Why not try the V-Diet with some methamphetamine. At least that way you’ll look like all the other people you are running with, even if you can’t keep up with them.

I’m just kidding. Why not just eat more?

edit

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why not try the V-diet with some methamphetamine. At least that way you’ll look like all the other people you are running with, even if you can’t keep up with them.

I’m just kidding. Why not just eat more?

edit[/quote]

Why, I like the idea of creatine supplementation while also preparing for and eventually running a 10k.

Nothing feels better than endless leg-cramps, right?

Do you have a goal time? Or do you just want to finish?
If it’s the latter of the two, I just wouldn’t bother training. No risk of losing muscle mass there! ;]

I’ve been taking 5 grams of creatine after every workout (6 times per week)for the past year and stopped cramping with it after about 6 months, so I THINK it will be fine.

Thanks Curt, I’ll try your advice first.

Also Bone, I’ll increase my protein, total calories, but I am mostly concerned about burning muscle during the run. Maybe the BCAAs (or just Leucine?) pre-run will take care of that.

Also, I plan on running first thing in the morning and then hitting the gym early afternoon. Do you think that the running will interfere with energy levels later in the day?

Depends on how hard/long you run, and if you are doing legs, definitely. Your intensity in the gym will certainly not be as high.

One of my friends did this last year and he had success by timing his carbs correctly and maintaining the same intensity in the weight room. You might actually lean out quite a bit without losing lean mass. He is in the Navy and competes in BB. Again, I will ask him for any supplementation advice.

At the risk of being flamed, have you thought about doing Crossfit for a couple of months? You’ll still be lifting heavy, and the workouts will remain short enough that you should be able to prevent muscle loss. There are lots of people who do Crossfit who finish 10k’s and even half-marathons without doing any specific training. Some advanced CFers have run Ironman triathlons at a bodyweight of 190 or 200.

The basic premise is that you can develop the muscular endurance to run a long race without doing a lot of long, slow running (which can be catabolic). So they do Crossfit workouts, and maybe add in some interval sprints, tempo runs, etc.

What does your training schedule look like? How often do you run?

[quote]HBergeron wrote:
At the risk of being flamed, have you thought about doing Crossfit for a couple of months? You’ll still be lifting heavy, and the workouts will remain short enough that you should be able to prevent muscle loss. There are lots of people who do Crossfit who finish 10k’s and even half-marathons without doing any specific training. Some advanced CFers have run Ironman triathlons at a bodyweight of 190 or 200.

The basic premise is that you can develop the muscular endurance to run a long race without doing a lot of long, slow running (which can be catabolic). So they do Crossfit workouts, and maybe add in some interval sprints, tempo runs, etc.[/quote]

I think this is a pretty good suggestion.

It can be done. I usually run 5 miles every morning and I’ve still put on an inch around my hips and 1/2 inch on each thigh while lowering my bodyfat since the fall. I think the key is to eat LOTS.

Also you don’t need to run 10k very often to train for one. Doing it occasionally is a good idea so you have a feel for the distance and pace but don’t do it too much if you haven’t ran a 10k before and you are working up to it. Plus it’ll really take away from your ability to recover from workouts especially if you’re not accustomed to it.

I had planned to run 45 minutes a day, because I had read that catabolism starts after 45 minutes. I was going to try to increase my distance without going past that time. Not sure if crossfit is down here in Costa Rica, but I’ll ask around.

There is a coffee field behind my house that has about a 3 1/2 loop on a dirt road, half uphill and half downhill. I planned on running that.

I liked what HBergeron said about it not being necessary to regularly train by running a full 10K. Maybe running the 3 1/2 mile loop with some uphill sprints thrown in will be enough and I’ll wait till a week before the race to do a full 10K. That should eventually equal an average of 30 minutes per day.

Here are a few exercises that could help with your speed and endurance:

Dumbbell swings
Burpees or squat thrusts
Mountain climbers
Bodyweight squats

Have fun. The hill sprints are a great idea.

[quote]Happy Gringo wrote:
I’ve been taking 5 grams of creatine after every workout (6 times per week)for the past year and stopped cramping with it after about 6 months, so I THINK it will be fine. [/quote]

Lots of taurine and pray, a strength training workout or some short-duration cardio isn’t nearly as cramp-inducing as a 10k… [quote]

Thanks Curt, I’ll try your advice first.

Also Bone, I’ll increase my protein, total calories, but I am mostly concerned about burning muscle during the run. Maybe the BCAAs (or just Leucine?) pre-run will take care of that.

Also, I plan on running first thing in the morning and then hitting the gym early afternoon. Do you think that the running will interfere with energy levels later in the day?[/quote]

[quote]Happy Gringo wrote:
I had planned to run 45 minutes a day, because I had read that catabolism starts after 45 minutes. I was going to try to increase my distance without going past that time. Not sure if crossfit is down here in Costa Rica, but I’ll ask around.

There is a coffee field behind my house that has about a 3 1/2 loop on a dirt road, half uphill and half downhill. I planned on running that.

I liked what HBergeron said about it not being necessary to regularly train by running a full 10K. Maybe running the 3 1/2 mile loop with some uphill sprints thrown in will be enough and I’ll wait till a week before the race to do a full 10K. That should eventually equal an average of 30 minutes per day.[/quote]

I’m hardly an expert here but I did a 21 minute 5k last summer, so I’ll chime in. The plan to run 45 minutes a day b/c of catabolism fears doesn’t make sense. Let’s just say there’s a lot of factors involved and most effective running programs include one “long run” per week. Waiting for a week before the race to do the full distance is a terrible idea. Don’t misinterpret “regularly” to “bascially never.” Look at 10k programs on the web and focus more on the interval/speed work. Also, you need to provide more info to get better advice. How long and fast you’re capable of currently running and height/weight would be a good start. Lastly, don’t drink that concoction before running unless your goal is stomach cramps. BCAAs and a little Gatorade will help a little and has a chance of being digested.

I would ingest 10 or so grams of BCAA’s, some glutamine and 3 grams of creatine prior to training, and drink lots of water. Catabolism doesn’t just start after 45 minutes, it starts once you deplete your energy stores.

Hill sprints and bodyweight circuits. Do one or two longer runs if you feel you need them.

Supplement wise, I’d be slamming BCAAs before and after the run along with 1-2 grams of Vitamin C.

Wow. Thanks guys, I feel like I have a better handle on it now. I checked some sites for sample schedules and I’m thinking of doing the following to LEAST interfere with my workouts, as running is secondary:

Mon - 5x5 Chest/Shoulders/Triceps 60 sec. between sets

Tue - Morning 30 min. run
Afternoon - 2x12 Legs/Abs 90 sec. between sets

Wed - 5x5 Back/Biceps 60 sec.

Thur - Morning 30 min. run
Afternoon - 2x12 Chest/Shoulders/Triceps 90 sec.

Fri - 5x5 Legs/Abs 60 sec. (90 for squats)

Sat - 2X12 Back/Biceps 90 sec.

Sun - Longer run

Hopefully this will allow me to finish the 10K, without damaging myself or losing muscle.

I’ll follow a combo of all of your supplement suggestions.

Oh yeah, I am 6 feet, 200 lbs.