T Nation

TouchinDeez's TRT Log

Hey guys, I have had awful luck with TRT my last two tries so I decided to make a log this time so that maybe I can figure out what is preventing me from being successful on this program.

I am 26 and weight 264 lbs (6’4") at somewhere around 18-20% body fat. I have worked out heavily since I was 16. I did one steroid cycle when I was around 21 years old but did not do labs to support a successful pct. When I graduated a year later I began to feel much more anxious and not like myself. This led me down a long road of doctor visits, and at this point I have had just about everything tested.

My first attempt at TRT was a little over a year ago at one of the shoot you in the butt clinics. I made it about 3 months. I stopped because without failure, for about 5 days after each shot I would feel tremendous anxiety, hot flashes, heart racing, heart palpitations (even had a 20 minute bout of A-fib which I had never had before), and high blood pressure. I started on 120mg Test Cyp 1x per week IM along with 2000iu HCG in the same shot (and .5mg Adex). Needless to say being a paranoid freak for this three months did not help me at work and I ended up quitting as my fear of further heart problems became too much. My dosages were changed several times during this period, so bear in mind that may have had something to do with it.

My second attempt was a few months later, and this was stopped quickly because again, I could not handle the anxiety. Something about the shots triggered terrible heart pounding and depersonalization that I just could not handle, as I started right after a terrible break-up.

After coming off using Clomid, my levels went back to about 450 ng/dL Total and around 12ng/dL free. I convinced myself that I felt better, however I really just felt awful again without the heart problems. I saw a Cardiologist, who ran an ultrasound and determined that my heart is perfectly healthy. I also saw an endocrinologist, who measured my T levels at 500ng/dL, which was the highest it has ever been since I began testing. I had morning cortisol, ACTH, thyroid hormones, vitamin D, CBC, all tested and everything came back very much within range. However, my libido was still utter garbage and is continuing to cause me relationship issues. I don’t have erectile dysfunction but I have almost zero sex drive. Girls don’t really appreciate this. On top of that, I was still not making any gains at all in the gym. In fact, my arms have been growing continually skinner while my belly grows. This has led to extremely low self confidence, as I used to be the “jacked” guy just a few years ago and although I am working out just as much I do not look anywhere near like what I did. It is so bad people have begun asking me why I don’t workout anymore. This sucks.

After about a year of dealing with the above, I went and got my testosterone checked again, as symptoms are only getting worse. What do you know, my level is now 265 ng/dL, measured at 10:30 in the morning on two separate occasions. I have decided that I cannot handle the low T issues so I may as well try and make TRT work for me.

In order to solve the heart racing issues, this time around I am using 140mg Test Cyp per week, however I am injecting it subcutaneously at 20mg/day as I have read on this forum that some people with my same issues had better luck with this protocol. My sperm is frozen and hcg causes heart rate issues for me as well, so I am not using that for now. My urologist has agreed to add in Adex if my estrogen tests high on this protocol. In the meantime, I had ACTH and cortisol measured again, along with a full iron panel as those are the only things I have not tested. I have posted the results for these (and my other pre-TRT labs) below:

Iron Bind Cap (TIBC) 351ug/DL Range:250-450
UIBC 289 ug/DL Range:111-343
Iron 62 ug/DL Range 38-169
Iron Saturation 18% Range:15-55
Ferritin,Serum 84 NG/ML Range:30-400

Morning Cortisol 14.2 mcg/DL Range:4.0-22
Morning ACTH 22 pg/ML range: 6-50

Testosterone 212ng/DL Range 300-1000
256 ng/DL Range 300-1000

CBC Normal, only other issue was borderline high LDL

Negative for any Thyroid antibodies (peroxidase and one other I can’t remember)
TSH 2.270
T4 Free1.11 Range .90-1.90
Hemoglobin A1C: 5.1 Range 4.2-5.6
Vitamin D Screen: 40 Range: 30-100
SHGB: 33
Estradiol (not sensitive): 37.1 Range <60.7 pg/ML

Anyways, I started this log late, as my first 20mg subq injection was on 8/8. I have done one daily in my abdomen including today.

I can’t say that I’ve felt any difference so far, but I am optimistic that subQ will work for me as IM just seems to cause too many issues.

I am taking vitamin k, vitamin d, iron (advice on this needed, I am doing this based off of my labs where my iron saturation seemed to be quite close to below normal), a multivitamin, injectable b complex, b12 sublingual, ashwaganda, magnesium, vitamin C, and pregnenolone 50mg per day.

Anyways, third time is a charm! At this point, getting this fixed is no longer an option. I need my sex drive back and I need gains. And need my heart to beat normally while I do it. I am nervous but doing my best to remain optimistic. I will update in a week or so once I start feeling changes. In the meantime, feel free to ask questions or offer advice as I am always open to it.

Update- After talking with a few people on TRT I decided to switch back to IM injections and do small injections daily (for now) to mitigate side effects… So far I have been feeling no changes. However, I injected 10mg of test cyp this morning and all seemed well. I got a little anxious following the injection as always but now I am having the same issues I had before, just to a lesser extent! I have a strange tight feeling in my chest that runs up to my neck and my ears have felt like they are on fire all day. However, anxiety is better than it is with large single doses. Any idea of what this may be? I can’t tell you how many times I have been to the doctor’s office over the past year and nothing has been wrong with me. I want to believe that this is just anxiety but it seems to be elevated stress hormones or something as mentally I am calm. Also, I have had this strange reaction with both grapeseed oil and cottonseed oil. Suggestions would be much appreciated. Also, I should mention that in the past i took letrozole to try and boost my testosterone and it bottomed out my estrogen to 8 on a sensitive test and raised my test to around 750 and I had none of these issues.

Why im?

Is it possible you are allergic to the carrier oil?
I see you answered that.

Did you get throughout labs.

Like metabolic panel, prolactin, CBC , thyroid panel.

IM because I wanted to maintain some level of consistency with my prior attempts, which were all IM. Unfortunately my doses were changed many times by my doctor in my prior attempts so I never had time to let anything stabilize. In addition, I tried subq at one point during my first attempt and felt next to nothing after 3 weeks. Not sure if I gave it long enough but it felt like I was injecting water. I am doing shallow IM with 29 guage 1/2" insulin needles. I have attached my labs below. Note that my prolactin is slightly elevated but I have already had an MRI of my pituitary that came back normal. Every now and then it comes back high but 90% of the time it is well within range.

LH: 5.7 Range 1.7-8.6
FSH: 3.5 Range 1.5-12.4

Prolactin: 16.2 H Range 4.0-15.2

Estradiol (sensitive): 28.3 Range 7.6-42.6

Last Thyroid labs I had were done at the beginning of this year, which had my Free T3 and Free T4 both in the upper third of the range. TSH was around 1.83 at this time, it tends to fluctuate between around 1.5-2.270 from what I’ve seen.

lab2

I should note that my symptoms today began around 4-5 hours after my injection. This makes me doubt that it is an allergy, as I would think that would happen sooner. Today felt brief anxiety after my injection as well, like I had had a bit of caffine, which was gone within an hour. Then I just hit the gym about an hour ago and my neck tightness is mostly gone but is still fluctuating, however I still have an “unsteady(?)” feeling in my chest. I have a normal heartbeat but my chest just feels off. Pulse is around 10bpm higher than what it usually is but mentally I feel very calm. Let me know if you would like anything else, I’ve got plenty of old labs/test results to go around.

Was this pre trt I hope

Yes sir that was pre-TRT

HCG can also cause terrible anxiety. Your iron a is a little low, saturation below optimal <20. Your daily dose is more than likely too high and arimidex is overprescribe and often doctors give out too high of a dosage which only causes more suffering.

If an AI is a must you should start out on .125mg in case you are an AI over-responder.

TRT is slow to show results in some men, it takes your body a minimum of 6 weeks to adapt to dosing changes, so 3 weeks isn’t enough time because it takes at least 6 weeks for the half life to build up in your system and after 6 weeks you have double the cypionate in your system, it you can’t stay on the same dosage for at least 6 weeks, you will never see any benefit to TRT.

It will take 6-12 months to see big changes, it will take awhile for your body to actual start utilizing these optimal testosterone levels. If you’re the kind of guy that wants relief immediately, TRT will disappoint you.

I don’t see Reverse T3 testing, Reverse T3 can block Free T3 at the cellular level.

Reverse T3 was tested maybe 4 months or so ago? I believe it was at 19 at the time and Defy told me that that was not an issue.

In other news, I have been slowly increasing my daily dose to see what I can tolerate without heart issues. Today I hit 20mg and this seems to be my outer limit. I was warming up on the treadmill at the gym doing some incline walking and my pulse was at a steady 147 until suddenly I started feeling lightheaded and my pulse shot up to 175 for a minute before I slowed down and it returned to normal. This was slightly discouraging as the day prior I had just started feeling the effects of the testosterone in the gym (much larger muscle pump in my biceps already) and I was starting to feel mentally very good. No heart issues as well. However, I am going to go back down to 14mg per day and then hold there as long as I am not having any heart issues. If the issues persist i will drop to 10mg until I can adjust properly.

I notice whenever adjusting my dosages it seems like my heart wants to beat faster than normal, I always chocked it up to my body adjusting to the new dosage, after 6 weeks all is fine.

That is encouraging to hear! Do you think I should stick with 14 mg per day or try another 18mg dosage (I mistakenly said 20 in my last post) and stick with it to see if things calm down?

Don’t make such dramatic moves on daily dosing, small moves equal big changes in levels. You need to give each protocol at least 6 weeks.

Since my last post I have stuck with 18mg per day. During my first go-around with TRT 120mg 1x per week had me at around 575 at my trough measurement so I am thinking this should put me where I need to be.

So now, a week and a half in and I have not had the heart racing issues nor really any anxiety. In fact, I am feeling extremely calm, cool and collected. I am slowly starting to feel more of a difference in the gym and my overall demeanor has become very positive and more level. I feel great, to be honest. Libido is even starting to come back which is a great feeling. The only thing I am nervous about is the fact that it seems to be going so well so far, I really hope that it continues. I know I will experience shutdown soon so that will be interesting but I am remaining optimistic. Only negatives so far is I’ve noticed that I’m losing quite a bit more hair in the shower but if feeling this good costs me my hair I’d say that’s a fair trade.

Daily dosing is where its at!! I imagine it’ll be a game changer for you. Stay away from AI, HCG, don’t worry about estrogen, & allow your body to adjust to the testosterone for the next 6 weeks. You will adjust.

2 Likes

You need to get that thyroid checked. Anxiety and the fact that trt doesn’t work is similar to my experience.

I would get anxiety after a shot and the Trt didn’t work for 4 months.

Everyone kept saying wait wait it takes time, but I literally felt nothing and it was the most frustrating thing in the world.

I switched to a legit Trt doc (something you need to do) and after hearing my experience and looking at labs he said “you need thyroid”.

I got my thyroid meds and within an hour I felt so mich better. Fatigue gone. Within a week I started feeling the trt working and the rest is history.

Your TSH is high enough to warrant concern. You want your free t3 above 4.1 or even 4.5. Most men need it around 4.5-5 for thyroid relief. Many men stay below out of fear and they continue to have issues with depression, anxiety; energy; metabolism and so forth.

I also decided to find one of the best docs for trt and that’s Dr. Keith nichols and his wife at www.toer1hw.com. I flew out and met him. He’s the doc that fixed me up and told me the truth about trt. He had low t symptoms like I did and we relate very well. Every patient he has is treated like a family member with care and proper guidance.

Stop going to clinics. You neeed expert help and guidance.

Hair loss could be the DHT. I’m glad you are feeling better. If it’s working now and you are feeling better, then that thyroid I mentioned isn’t neccisarily the cause of this not to work. Regardless I would check and fix it for overall health and wellness. A tsh or 1.5 or higher is cause for concern. Read my post above and let me know if you have any questions. And the guy above my post is spot on. No ai; don’t worry about estrogen.

Also don’t forget that when we start TRT it takes several months for the body to adapt: we will have all types of symptoms from mood changes to nipple sensiviry and sleep or anxiety. The body was in low t status for s a long time and this influx of hormones is a shock to the body.

Almost 90% of men who stay the course will tell you that after 3-4 months all these symptoms dissipate.

Another man I was talking to had serious anxiety like you. I told him to not change his dose and continue. It will get better. He sent me updates and evegnsully he was past these symptoms and no longer has issues with sleep and anxiety.

The alternative is lower dose and or take an ai and keep the body in limbo. Never able to raise rose for the benefits we want form trt and kinda stay at a levels that’s called “better and good enough.”

enackers:

what’s your protocol again?

My current protocol is 18mg daily, no hcg and no ai

I’m in scrotal cream. It’s 50mg per click. I take 2 clicks am, mid evening and before bed daily. Helps me sleep and I wake up feeling good. If I did twice a day I was waking up 12 hours later blah. This also helps me sleep when I apply before bed.

1 Like

So 6 clicks / 300mg per day then? I am prescribed half that amount and am not sure whether it’s enough or not.

@enackers

If it’s not working add two clicks daily!

1 Like