T Nation

Total Test level of 116 ng/dl

That’s right…I’m 21 years old, about to turn 22 and I’ve been suffering from gyno-like symptoms for the last 6 months or so, have taken nolva from some buddies a few times but it never quite did the trick.

I went to the endocrinologist and found out my test levels were EXTREMELY low for any male’s age, let alone mine. The only thing close to steroids I’ve ever done was a cycle of RPN havoc promptly followed by nolva about a 1.5yrs ago.

It had a very potent effect on me though. I gained about 25lbs of mass, my bench press went from 240 to 315 and my squat went from 335 to 405(x8 never maxed) all in 4 weeks. Prior to taking havoc I had broken my hand and had taken 5 weeks off from lifting, so I would’ve had significant gains anyways but these were astronomical.

Anyways, I’m trying to find information online about what the doctor may do to treat my condition that he’s sure was caused by the havoc, and he probably is right but it seems odd that it would surface so much later.

There’s little to no info about males my age in my situation, it’s all about older men who naturally begin to stop producing test. The doctor is running more tests to see what’s causing the low test, either my testes or my pituitary.

My question is: Has anyone here been in my shoes or similar shoes? What’s going to happen to me and/or what types of meds will the doctor give me? Is it possible that I could be prescribed t-gel or shots and after a few doses be fine and thats that or is this something I’m going to have to deal with for life?

My doctor was very unhelpful and rather than answering my worries proceeded to question me atleast 6 times “are you sure you’re not taking any steroids” No you’re right doc, there’s EQ in my eggs, sorry I’ve been lying this whole time. God damn.

I really hope someone here knows something because I won’t know anything from him for a week and I’m pretty stressed over it. Thanks for your input.

I’m just about to turn 22 so I was almost 21 when I took it. Hopefully TRT won’t be necessary. What baffles the doctor is that although my test levels are extremely low, I still since the initial tests (5 weeks ago) have put on about 6lbs of muscle and my bench press has gone up about 15lbs.

So how could I be improving in muscle with such low test levels and NO I’m NOT on roids or ph. I switched diets a little (increased daily proteins by about 50g, fats by about 25g, decreased carbs by 50g) but shouldn’t I be experiencing nearly no growth if not muscle wasting with 116 ng/dl total test? Free and bioavailable were very low too (20’s and 40’s)

What were your FSH/LH numbers?

Haven’t gotten the results for that yet. On my first visit the endocrinologist checked mainly prolactin levels. He believed that I had small breast tissue growth during my havoc cycle, and afterwards my gyno symptoms were being sustained by normal levels of prolactin.

He took some blood tests and prescribed 2.5mg Bromocriptine e.d. I was to return in 5 weeks to check prolactin levels again. Upon returning in about 4 weeks (because gyno symptoms persisted) he was baffled at the test levels.

I guess because of my muscular size he hadn’t even considered high estrogen relative to low testosterone levels a potential cause to my gyno.

So to answer your question I won’t know FSH/LH until this thursday (2-12-09). My T levels were as follows (from the initial test)

Total - 116 ng/dl
Free - 20.5 ng/dl
Bioavailable - 43.1 ng/dl

Everything else fell within normal ranges (except for BUN - 24mg/dl, which he said was likely due to dehydration).

Prolactin was 7.6 ng/ml (2.5-17 range).

I should also mention that I have Crohn’s Disease and was diagnosed 3-2-05. To treat this I take 5mg/kg Remicade intravenously e/7wks. The doctor seems unsure if my condition or medicine would in any way contribute to this situation, but I contacted my gastroenterologist and he said the medicine or crohn’s isn’t linked to low T.

Change your doctor if you’re not happy with him…

If this was caused by taking RPN havoc, is it possible to re-establish my body’s ability to produce natural T or am I hosed?

I intend to do so pending the next visit’s results.

Alright man just give it a couple of days, some others will chime in as well. I think the FSH/LH levels will help fill in the picture some too.

In one series only 6% of men with Crohn’s had hypogonadism, which I find surprisingly low.

But Zinc deficiency is common, and a frequent cause if Crohn’s involves the small gut.

Last, prednisone screws up everything. Remicade does not lower T.

So: check your other meds, check FSH/LH and zinc, and with your story, check your bone density!!!

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
In one series only 6% of men with Crohn’s had hypogonadism, which I find surprisingly low.

But Zinc deficiency is common, and a frequent cause if Crohn’s involves the small gut.

Last, prednisone screws up everything. Remicade does not lower T.

So: check your other meds, check FSH/LH and zinc, and with your story, check your bone density!!![/quote]

I’ve taken prednisone probably 10-15 times in the last 4 years because of sinus problems related to weak immunities, etc. My crohn’s dr makes me get a bone density scan every year, which its been just about a year so you’re right I should bring that up as well.

The fact that you can still put on muscle is very encouraging. There are definitely some hormonal imbalances at play here, but with good guidance I think you can get them sorted out. You need a good endo and I am sure some of the heavy hitters on this site can arm you with some good leads. Try the over 35 lifter forum as there is a lot of expertise there too on this topic.

Good luck…

Ok so I just worked out chest tonight. Here’s what I did…

Flat barbell
135x10
185x6
225x10
245x8
265x6
295x1
315x1
325x1

Incline barbell
195x8(2)
225x8(2)
245x6

Incline db flies
50’s x12
55’s x12
60’s x12
65’s x10
70’s x10

Then I had to wrap it up because I have homework. How the crap can I be so strong with test so low? My energy levels are nonexistent too while at work and school.

Check thyroid numbers with doc too. Low thyroid production can leave a person very fatigued; especially when sedentary. Then when you do train and finally get your metabolism going the energy will kick in.

Check thyroid numbers with doc too. Low thyroid production can leave a person very fatigued; especially when sedentary. Then when you do train and finally get your metabolism going the energy will kick in.

Still waiting. The doctor got some but not all of the results. Now he says it’s gonna be a few weeks. I hate the waiting game