T Nation

Total Newbie Here- Going on Gear Soon


I'm 165 lbs. 5'11. 25 years old. Balding. Slight Acne problems. Have gynecomastia from puberty.

I'm looking for several benefits from Testosterone. Be a bit more manly. Lose stomach and chest fat. Gain muscle.

Currently, I wrestle 1x a week and recently started break dancing 1x a week as well. I haven't lifted in 1.5 years.

1.) How long should I lift and work on my diet before I get on my first cycle? 3 months good?

2.) Since I already have gynecomastia, acne, and balding I'm worried that this is only going to be amplified. I'm going to be taking 1.25 mg of Propecia (finasteride). Also applying 5-10% benzoyl peroxide to acne affected areas (back, chest, face). I'm a bit lost at Gynecomastia. So many options. AIs and Serm.

I want the best stuff. Something that may even revert puberty gyncomastia if possible (i don't think that's possible though)??? I hear people using - letrozole? Yes?

3.) What are your thoughts on home brewing (I'm worried about cleanliness and purity)?

4.) Any other comments or suggestions???


i cant wait :slight_smile:


Few things..

3 months is nowhere near long enough before you start gear. Reason being, if you dont have your diet and training down you will be wasting your gear. Testosterone is not a miracle drug. You have to know what youre doing before it will give you all its benefits.

Since you have pubertal gyno I would definitely do everything I could to keep a firm handle on your estrogen levels. Adex/Letro being the best choices, but you have to be careful when using something as potent as letro. But this doesnt apply until you are actually ready for a cycle.

As far as home brewing goes, if correct protocol is ran then cleanliness wont be a problem.

In my opinion you need to get AT LEAST 6 months of natural training under your belt before starting your research for a cycle that suits your goals.



I've lifted on and off since I've been 16 or so. I wrestled in high school and part of college. Does that count for anything? Or do you still recommend 6 months of continual lifting right before 1st cycle?


Definitely counts for something. The reason behind waiting a while before jumping into gear is to make sure you have your training and diet both spot on. Trust me, if you wait the few extra months to make sure everything is to a T your results will be much better than if you jump into it and start tomorrow. I see plenty of people that complain that they arent getting the results they had hoped for & 9 times out of 10 it isnt the gear thats holding them back.

Try working on a diet plan that you can post here and we'll be more than happy to critique it and same goes for your workout setup. This will definitely help.



This is how anabolic hormones and other ergogenic aids get such a bad rap: individuals with absolutely no preparation beginning use of these drugs. Ask yourself a few questions:

1) Have I done everything reasonable to increase my strength and change my physique through training and diet?

2) Am I prepared to deal with side effects and mentally prepared to deal with potential medical problems like abscesses, muscle tears, potential organ strain and, frankly, the legal consequences?

3) Is this a shortcut to achieve an average, or even minor goal rather than putting in the hard work?

4) Have I spent a sufficient amount of time learning steroid types, modalities, injection sites, ancillary medications and acquired reliable sources for each?

5) Am I trying to fix problems that can't be fixed by sticking a needle into my ass (such as gyno, self-esteem issues, whatever)?

6) Have I consistently resistance trained for the last two years?

If even a single question gets a, "No," in response, you should not even be thinking about anabolic hormone use. You haven't trained in 1.5 years? Seriously? I don't care if you trained some when you were in your teens; that's like the emaciated guy who responds with, "Well, six years ago I benched 305," when asked what his max bench press is NOW. Exogenous testosterone is not a substitute for lack of discipline and laziness.

You just want to lose some fat? You want to be more manly? Want to gain a little muscle? All of these could be done quickly and permanently with a change of diet and some weight training. You might surprise yourself. What I got from your post is that you're lazy, unwilling to do any real work and want a magic pill. And you think you have bad acne now and a little gyno from puberty; balding? You are a disaster waiting to happen. Don't believe me? Wait until you grow the actual mammary gland and can milk yourself...that'll make you feel manly.

Bottom line: you have no business even mentioning the word steroid as it applies to what supplements you should use.




Could it be? Its chickentuna's long lost brother!!!!


LOL at this guys post. I completely understand where its coming from but basically telling someone they are a moron is going to be least effective and will end up with him disregarding your post entirely and going about his cycle as planned. And ultimately ending up doing something ridiculous and giving these compounds an even worse "rap".

Just do as I suggested, get together a diet plan and workout breakdown and we'll critique it to get you started on the right foot.



Another thing to add.. Even attempting to give off the notion that AAS use is some sort of an elitist club that you have to put your time in before you get any legitimate advice is another contributing factor to the bad "rap" behind these compounds. Instead of being a hot head, try giving some legitimate advice. You're just taking away their want to learn. I saw someone who was asking legitimate questions looking for legitimate answers and your response is no you're an idiot for even asking. Thats not how we do things around here.

Who has ever listened to someone that just said no! no! absolutely not! If we all listened to someone that said "no, dont do that" this entire section of the forum wouldnt be here.



All I provided was a list of questions to answer and, yeah, maybe I was too harsh, but this guy shouldn't even be considering a cycle yet. When he can answer all six questions with a yes, he's ready to go. He hasn't even tried to achieve his goals with diet, exercise and discipline.

Let's get him started on that track (just like you suggested) and leave out the idea of the drugs. He'd be wasting his money. If his goal is to deepen his voice or grow more back hair, well, yes, it's hard to say not to take them, as I don't know too many reliable ways of achieving either, but after 6-months of training, hopefully he'll figure out that A) he didn't need the test, or B) he wants to reach the point where it makes sense.


Dont get me wrong, I completely understand where you were coming from and your post made me laugh a bit. Because I mean it is the brutal truth, but its just not an effective way to provide him with a different mindset.



Fair enough...


Thanks BMC. You've been helpful.

DH Kiefer, it's not laziness. I've been lifting for almost a decade off and on. And there is no way I can get to where I want to be naturally. I haven't lifted REGULARLY in 1.5 years. I'm just getting back into it and needed a bit of motivation. I've tried lifting for years straight. And now, it's been tough getting back into because I KNOW no matter how hard I'll work I'll only come out disappointed with the results. I've tried over and over again. I wrestled for a D1 college. I worked out 7 days a week. My GENETICS just don't allow me to gain and look the way I want.

It's not like i'm taking gear tomorrow. I'm just trying to learn as much as possible before I start. Whether it's 6 months from now to a year.


Well first let me tell you, there are a lot of intelligent posters here that can help in each area of their "expertise".

Start by getting together a diet plan because this is so incredibly essential to hitting your goals, whatever they are. We'll chime in and critique if we see something that could be fixed.

Next do the same with your workout program and we'll critique that as well & I promise with those two alone you'll see much better results than you have in the past.

After we get you heading in the right direction you can start researching gear. Let me tell you, theres a lot of information and you need to know it all before you are actually starting a cycle. And if you're posting questions and WANTING to learn, plenty of people are going to chime in to give you their assistance.



it could be 2 years.....


Sometimes I think some of you are concentrating on the wrong things. Someone here is at least attempting to learn. He's actually considering taking a year to learn before he considers a cycle and the response is "it could be 2".. thats irrelevant. I'm sure if he spends the next year researching AAS he'll know when he's ready. You dont know enough to even make a half educated conjecture as to when he would be ready.



i know but what i mean is he shoudnt just think 1 year and i can do AAS, he should be thinking when i've reached my genetic limits i can do AAS, you cant just set a date for that.


BMC, I understand what you're trying to do for the guy, but I think you're missing the point. Reread this guys posts:

He's small...at 5'11", 165...I would venture to say he's never put serious time into his diet or weight lifting routine. He says he hasn't lifted in 1.5 years. His motivation: lose fat, gain muscle, be more manly. How many people do you know who give you such vague goals who've really put in the time.

He's looking for the magic pill and he wants it now...he doesn't want to come up with a diet or exercise routine. Proof? You tell him to buckle down and lift and get a decent nutrition plan together and follow it for 6 months. His immediate response:

He waffles immediately. Well...I have lifted on and off and I wrested 5 years ago. I'm surprised he didn't say, "Can I start now? Now, can I, can I? I paid my dues once, really I did. PLEEEEZE Eddie!!"

Then, in response to me calling him lazy, he follows with:

Are you kidding me? He worked out for wrestling (which usually consists of high rep, endurance, light strength and eating to ensure you don't gain too much weight) and says, "My GENETICS just don't allow me to gain and look the way I want." Yeah, he's really pushed his genetics to the limit after not lifting consistently or at all for the last 1.5 years (who knows which, ask him a third time and he'll probably have lifted everyday for the last 1.5 years if he thinks it'll get him more approval to start NOW). He knows...He already knows...that no matter how hard he works, he'll only be disappointed.

That's BS. He is saying EXACTLY what people say when they go to GNC looking for the latest fat burning wonder drug. Translation: I've half-assed it before, and I don't feel like half-assing it again; give me a pill so I can go back to the couch (or break dancing in this case). He's not interested in learning about diet and lifting routines...he's interested in getting results NOW without putting in what he seems to consider the unnecessary work: eating right and lifting consistently.

Do you really think he'll take your advice to heart?