[quote]scottiscool wrote:
Why couldn’t you gain strength on a split?
The best of both worlds in my mind is a powerlifting program like West Side. Just train for strength the first 1-2 movements, train for bodybuilding with 2-3 more. [/quote]
I wanted to revisit this with a question for Scott, anyone can chime in though.
Scott,
With your above quote I’d like to seek your clarification please. Are you suggesting something like the following using chest as an example:
Bench press - say a 5x5 or 8x3
Incline or decline DB press - 4x6 or 5x5 or 8x3 etc
then…
Cable crossover 3x12
DB flys 3x12
This is just an example of course, but from what I understand of your post the first couple of exercises are heavy compound type exercises with high sets/low reps. The a couple or three exercises, perhaps isolation exercises in the higher rep ranges. I’m I correct in this sir?
If so, that seems to have some solid merit to it. It would seem to indeed keep me in the strength spectrum yet also mass spectrum with the high reps. With the additional benefit of getting alot of oxygen/blood surging to the area.
Appreciate the clarification and any additional comments. Thank you.
[quote]MarcusPhaeton wrote:
TRAJJ wrote:
… So, if I am able to press 225 lbs as a 1RM currently with pressing something like 185 lbs for say a half dozen reps or so, wouldn’t it be logical to expect that if I were able to press 185 lbs for say 15 reps that my 1RM would also go up? …
In my experience, different training methods and routines produce different results in the body, and they don’t always “bleed over”. For example, lets say you can barbell bench 185 for 5 reps and dumbbell press 140 (70 lbs. each dumbbell) for 8. Now lets say you concentrate on dumbbell presses only for a while and get it up to 160 for 10. You will probably expect your barbell press to go up too, right? But in my experience increasing my dumbbell press doesn’t much affect my barbell press.
Here is another example a little closer to what you are saying. After a period of heavy lifting, let’s say you go on a high volume routine. From 180 for 3 x 5, you move into 100 for 10x10. After five weeks on the 10x10, you may be doing 120 for 10x10 and have gained a solid five pounds of muscle. Now when you go back to lifting heavy, you would expect to be able to lift 180 for better than 3 x 5, but in actuality, you probably cannot. The fact is, higher volume is great at building muscle mass and stamina, but not ideal for increasing strength.
The best way to train for strength is usually to lift heavy for low reps. That’s why powerlifters and olympic lifters train a lot with singles, doubles, and triples. The best way to gain muscle mass is to lift with more volume, the way bodybuilders usually do.[/quote]
I understand where your coming from with your comments. How’s this for a possible solution/compromise that works…
On a weekly basis, do a 3-day split and towards the end of the week a TBT with just the bigger compound movements. Say squats, bench and overhead press. Maybe a 4x6, 5x5 or 8x3 type rep scheme.
It would seem to indeed keep me in the strength spectrum yet also mass spectrum with the high reps. With the additional benefit of getting alot of oxygen/blood surging to the area.
[/quote]
You are getting the general idea, application is up to you. I would train for strength first and foremost with exercises for that muscle and then use a couple of lifts to help build that lift/gorge it with blood. Say rack deads build your back best and you go in the gym for back(and you could likely do 1-2 other muscles as well) day and do…
Rack Dead up to your 2 heaviest sets of 10-12 and an even heavier 4-6.(always more weights or reps ALWAYS)
Dumbbell Row with 2-3 sets of 10-12 reps
Reverse Grip Pulldown 2-3 sets of 10-15 reps
-these would be also trained for strength but are more of an assistance exercise role
This is how I would put it for someone that wants to train like a traditional bodbybuilder(multiple exercises, bodypart days), but get the benefits of a strength trainer. The meat and potatoes of the program is the first lift or two per bodypart, if you were looking for the absolute minimum it would be the rack deads constantly training for strength(always in good bodybuilding form of course). The last ones are really for psychological reasons as it’s hard to convince someone they only need 1-2 exercises with 1-2 work sets to grow. Try convincing people it’s enough and you’ll grow some grey hairs pretty fast. I see this as a compromise of sorts, the problem is you can’t train as frequently, but you will take what you can get when it comes to teaching someone to train key exercises for strength.