TOT ExperiMENT Log

Pharma / TRT
1

As I’ve mentioned here before, I plan on trying a little testosterone optimization experiment that relies less on actual testosterone and more on trestolone, aka MENT (7a-methyl-19nortestosterone). Based on a lot of clinical data I can extrapolate out what sort of dose to take, what side effects to expect, and what kind of impact it will theoretically have on various things. So here’s my official(ish) log. Probably won’t update daily, but I’ll keep track of what I’m doing, what’s changing, and what adjustments I’m making. This is mostly for my own study purposes and I do not endorse anyone else doing what I’m doing. I have been on trt for 3.5yrs now and I know my body very well. I know what I can and cannot do, and I know my limitations as far as my understanding of the science. The way to avoid hurting yourself is to never believe that you know more than you do. Anyway, on with the show…

Brewed my MENT at 50mg/ml, since that makes microdosing easier. I made enough to last me over a year, but it’s likely I’ll up the dose at some point, for science of course.

Starting very low to assess reaction and tolerance. Last night and again this am at 2.5mg, injected IM using a 29g 1/2” insulin pin, lateral deltoid. Tomorrow will go up to 5mg, which will be my set point for at least four weeks, probably longer.

Weeks 1-4
Test 100mg/w, MENT 5mg/d
Diet and training will remain the same. The goal is to assess any changes that are caused by the MENT rather than calorie intake or added training/cardio.

Weeks 4-8
Test 60mg/w, MENT 5mg/d
Here I’ll be looking to see if I can function comfortably with a very low test dose. I know how 70mg/w feels (shitty) so I set a number even lower. I actually lived at 70/w for almost a month to establish a baseline of misery in order to be able to conduct this experiment. Yes, I’m that much of an asshole that I’d volunteer for discomfort in order to make my study more accurate.

Weeks 8-12
Test 60mg/w, MENT 5mg/d, methenolone enanthate 200mg/w
Here I’ll be monitoring any improvement in DHT-related things. See, MENT doesn’t convert to DHT, so you either get it from elsewhere or you go without it. The majority of the men in the studies did just fine without DHT, so it makes one wonder if we actually need it at all. Not needing it—or only needing small amounts from a low dose of test—would be welcome news to my prostate.

Weeks 12-28
Test at ?mg/w, MENT 5mg/d, methenolone enanthate 600mg/w
This will be my recomp. Last time I tried to run primo the gyms closed, so if they close again three months from now you can blame me.

After that it’ll be back to test 60mg/w and MENT 5mg/d, assuming that I don’t find a need to go higher with the test.

Starting stats
5’7” (doubt that changes :joy:)
190lbs
BF 20%, calipers (guh, fucking Halloween candy; damn you M&M Mars)

Day one

Noticeable effects at 2.5mg
Only effect was how much hotter I was at the gym this am. Otherwise it was a normal workout.

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2

How much more anabolic is MENT compared to Test? Androgenic? I know it is strong, I just question how much 5 mg/day will do?

3

For true replacement levels you’d use 400-700mcg, according to the anabolic rating. So 5mg is a big upgrade as far total anabolic potential. Reality is that the ratings aren’t accurate enough to rely on, so you feel your way around with trial and error.

4

Some ratings are better for certain compounds than others. I’d like to see this numbers be recalculated using better study design and measurements.

I am interested to see how your experiment goes. I do know others who “cruise” on other compounds with test too (cruise in “” because it is more than I use in a blast).

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5

All in the name of science, as per usual :smiley:

This experiment looks really promising. I’m looking forward to reading your new roid-blog, especially since I’m still awaiting your primo trial! It had such a catchy name, it broke my heart that the thread never got used for its purpose.

Good luck!

6

Scientific update

Day three, on 5mg yesterday and today. The acetate ester is great because it really does work as fast as you think it will. And the libido effects are…pronounced. Like, I’m usually at a 9/10 most days, rain or shine, but MENT goes full Spinal Tap here. So that’s a very expected but nonetheless pleasant effect. No change in lifts (which I wouldn’t expect this early on) or intensity at the gym. I imagine the lack of a DHT component is the cause for the missing intensity bump that comes from other drugs. Otherwise things are going as planned. Until my nitwit Governor shuts down gyms again and I become fully radicalized my plan is to simply go about my business and track what happens.

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7

I wanted to chime in, not necessarily about your thread but about something you said/asked a while back. Basically you asked my thoughts about taking two or maybe more different orals at once but each at a low dosage with a total dosage at or lower than what would be considered an okay oral dosage. Something like 20 mgs of anavar and 20 mgs of winstrol or whatever. The total is not higher than what we consider a ok oral dosage for either. We consider around 50mgs acceptable for either one and i that example we only had 40 total mgs.

Anyways I had a buddy get a hold of me to see if I could spare some AI. So I started going through my good ole “bag oh fun.” I realize I have loose tablets of winstrol, anavar, dbol and turinabol. Not enough to do much of anything with themselves alone. And since they are exposed to oxygen I assume they are slowly degrading. When I looked and realized had these old supplement bottles with the remainder of these four anabolics I remembered your question about what I thought about combining a low dose of two different orals.
Well I am thinking I will try just that my friend. I need to count what I have of each and then maybe I’ll do a two to three weeks combo. I don’t think I have more than 20-30 tablets of each thing. Or maybe I’ll cut them all in half and take 5 mgs of each one for as long as it takes to run them out.

I wouldn’t do this except I know they are just sitting there and I will be rolling out of a blast soon and I always say orals at the end to push hard to the finish line.

Just wanted to share how yet again one of our conversations has yet again come back and made me think about trying something different. I definitely appreciate you;

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8

Scientific update

Ugh. Had to take some adex yesterday. It was six days out from my last test injection, so I was taking test and my hcg in the AM, and by the evening I could tell I was getting a little more emotional than usual. Otherwise everything is normal. Probably will be adjusting test dose sooner than planned, based on this recent development.

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Should be noted progestogenic compounds interfere with dopaminergic signalling. Anastrazole might not be particuarly helpful

10

So… how’s the experiment going?

Gym progress? Libido? Appetite? Mood? Aesthetic appearance?

Can’t say I’d ever have the balls to mess with something this potent, that’s what makes this experiment so intriguing to observe.

11

No real change so far. 5mg is very tolerable and I don’t feel any different just yet. Libido is usually high anyway, so the small improvement is sort of superfluous. Strength is tougher to gauge. I switched programs three weeks ago and ever since I’ve been seeing good linear progression. So this recent week where I was hitting some good lifts could be from the MENT or it could be from a change in routine. I don’t want to definitively say it’s one thing or another just yet.

I look a little more full, that’s for sure. I’ve been eating in a slight deficit or at maintenance (depending on the day) and weight has dipped a little, but within the expected range. I imagine if I amped up the dose I would see some big changes fairly rapidly, but I’m not prepared to do that quite yet. I think I’ll be dropping my test dose sooner than planned, just to get data more quickly. I can say that I don’t feel like I’m on a lower dose of test right now, but 100mg is definitely right on the edge of where I can go before it gets unpleasant. Previously I could live comfortably at 120.

12

Scientific Update

So today was the first time I felt anything in the gym from this protocol. Kind of out of nowhere this AM my bench is up 30lbs over two weeks. That was unexpected.

Other things:
-Libido may be dangerous at this point
-E2 has not been impacted enough for me to notice
-Weird dreams, which is highly unusual for me
-Appetite is growing, which I’m not wild about

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13

30lbs, holy shit that’s wild. Wonder how much you’ll be able to keep.

Sounds like a good bulking compound then?

14

I think at the right dose it’s the ultimate bulking drug. And yeah, I was shocked by the increase in strength. It was like it appeared magically this morning. I notice slow progress usually, but today was different.

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15

Be aware this can be/is considered dealing by law. Penalties if caught are much harsher in comparison to personal use/possession.

16

Scientific Update

I decided to drop the test dose and frequency earlier than planned. What can I say, I’m impatient.

So here’s how it went. Normally I would do test twice a week. But the weeks leading up to this experiment I started doing once weekly injections. It helped me get a sense of just when it was time to re-up. I could tell on day six that I was dragging, so that observation was valuable. So now I’m doing injections once a week and there is no such dragging. But here’s the twist: I’m not actually doing injections once a week. Week one I spaced them out over seven days. Week two it was eight days. Now on week three I’m going nine days between test injections and there is no difference in how I feel or my gym performance.

I’m down to 70mg of test spaced out nine days and I have never felt stronger or had more libido in my life. Without getting graphic I will just say that Owens Corning could hire me to cut glass for them. Yesterday I did 10mg, 5 AM and 5 PM, and the difference was pronounced. Will not be doing that for the duration of this experiment, but it’s certainly worth it once in a while. Full on porn star mode. I cannot imagine trying to function IRL that way all the time, but it was fun for a few hours.

Now onto the actual performance part, which is what really matters here. I’m up ~1.5lbs and I just look bigger. Shoulders, arms, and traps all look like they’ve grown and my pants fit exactly the same as before. (The pants test is unscientific but it’s never let me down before) Two people in my life, both of whom see me every day, have commented that I look like I’ve gotten bigger. I’m going to assume that they’re not hallucinating and that what I see in the mirror is also in fact real. I can see this drug has the potential to build absolutely astounding mass if you’re eating and training for that purpose. I would venture that as little as 10mg/d would be enough to give you the kind of size and strength you’d get from a decent test-only cycle. I’m betting if you went nutty and did 25mg/d you’d never have to use another compound ever again. I know it’s early, so I don’t want to oversell it too much, but so far I don’t think I want to live life without a pretty huge stockpile of MENT on hand at all times.

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17

Scientific update

So I’m one day shy of the one month mark and figured an update was in order.

Weight is remaining steady between 191-192. I’ve been eating mostly at maintenance, and I’ve done a lot less LISS than usual.

Strength is continuing to steadily go up. Hit new PRs on a few exercises (seated row, lat pull down, bench), although I don’t usually keep track of that sort of thing.

Overall I feel good. Test dose is now down to 60mg/w in one shot. I can probably drop it entirely but I’m not ready yet. I still have to do trt bloods at some point this month, or maybe early next month, so I’m keeping the test in the mix for a few more weeks at least.

The mirror is telling me that it’s working very well.

I feel like 5mg/d of MENT is way, way stronger than I initially expected. For actual replacement I’m willing to bet I can get away with 1-2mg/d. I may start my big boy blast first and then drop down to a tiny dose of MENT and very low testosterone for full replacement sometime in April. Still working out the details.

As far as non-gym stuff, everything is working quite well. Zero e2 issues at this dose. My wife is growing weary of the increased libido, which, c’mon you’re 23, enjoy it. Sleep has been fine, no changes. Nothing is really different at all. Aside from feeling a little more happy and being a little hungrier things are basically normal.

18

I’ve read real ment is hard to come by. What are they using to fake it? Just test? I know you brewed your own, but I’m just curious. Not a lot of information on it.

19

Unsure what they’d use to fake it, but if it’s a sophisticated scammer selling already made oil, I’d say a mix of test ace and npp might be passable, for a little bit anyway. I haven’t heard of any fakes out there from reputable sources, though. And while it is expensive overall it’s not bad when you consider the mg to mg costs relative to something like primo.

1 Like
20

Scientific update

Alright so it’s been six weeks on the MENT and I think I can make some assessments about it as a whole.

-it can completely replace testosterone
-it can add significantly more strength and mass at this dose than a comparable amount of testosterone
-it can make you feel better in subtle but meaningful ways
-you need to do this only if you have a willing sex partner or are comfortable taking care of your own horniness on your own multiple times a day; the libido increase is borderline uncomfortable

Now obviously YMMV and the caveat is that I know what I’m doing here. This isn’t for everyone. But taking only 60mg of testosterone spaced out over 11 days and noticing absolutely no change in performance, mood, libido, or anything else tells me that daily MENT is doing the work that the missing testosterone would have otherwise been doing.

Current stats:
5’7” (dammit, no change)
Weight: 194
BF: 20% (calipers this AM)

While on MENT I hit new PRs on every single lift that I do, legs notwithstanding. (When I was 19 I could leg press a Buick; at 38 my knees don’t allow me to do anything close to that)

So basically added 4lbs over six weeks without getting any fatter. Obviously glycogen and a little water in there, but overall I look a lot bigger. It’s weird because I don’t think I added 4lb of pure muscle, but my frame looks like I put on 10lbs of size. Kind of cool how a little more size here or there makes you look overall much bigger. It’s all cosmetic, so I’m not too enthusiastic about it just yet. But if that can be a permanent change onto which I can add some more then I would be pretty pleased about it.

Now onto the next phase, which I need to modify. Plan was to go to zero testosterone, but unfortunately I cannot do that. I need to see my GP in February and run blood work, so I’ll be remaining at 60mg every 8-10 days until I get that done. If I show up and do blood work showing TT at 0 he may have some questions.

Skipping the primo for now. I clearly don’t need the extra DHT, so I’ll save it for the second quarter when I run a more serious blast with the aim to recomp.

The next 5-8 weeks I’ll be doing a relatively hard cut. Now I hate dieting more than anyone you’ve ever met, so I’m hoping to get it over with all in one go rather than a long, slow cut. So a deep cut, followed by a MENT/primo blast where I’ll generally try to recomp (yes yes, nobody thinks recomp can be done without tren; utter bullshit) with the goal of hitting 15% at 185-190. After that I will cruise with MENT at like 2.5mg/d or lower and just maintain for a while. That should bring me to the Fall and from there I’ll see what I want to do. End goal will be to start January 1, 2022 at 195 and 14-15%. Feels very doable provided I maintain my diet. Let this all be a lesson to anyone out there: if you’re not in control of your diet or if you have an unhealthy relationship with food, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, how much you know about training or hormones, or how much gear you run, you will still look lousy. Diet. Is. Everything. Take it from a guy who has struggled a lot this year, your diet can make or break your mental and physical health like nothing else.

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