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Top Bodybuilding Mistakes: Gironda

This is a list made up by Vince Gironda (obvioulsy made up a while back) of what he thinks are the 35 top bodybuilding mistakes… What do you guys think?

  1. Over training! (Anything over 45 minutes is over training.)
  2. Working out too slowly.
  3. Full Sit Ups and Leg Raises.
  4. Working abdominals every workout.
  5. Working upper body and legs on the same day.
  6. Not touching chest to bar and calling it chinning.
  7. Not raising up on the big toe when doing Toe Raises (also pulling heels together at counteraction.)
  8. Bench Presses for Pecs. (90% Front Deltoid.)
  9. Not touching all four bells together on dumbbell bench work. (90% Deltoid if not performed this way.)
  10. Deep Knee Bends.
  11. Leg Presses.
  12. Under working and over working a muscle by performing too wide a variety of exercises on a given muscle.
  13. Cheating exercises.
  14. Presses for deltoid.
  15. One arm exercises.
  16. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.
  17. Behind neck Chins on Pull-down Machine (Rounded Back.)
  18. Not working Hyperextensions and forearms on every upper body day.
  19. Skipping breakfast.
  20. Side Bends.
  21. Not ingesting enzymes at every meal.
  22. Not arching back on lat work.
  23. Leg Extensions.
  24. Leg Curls on extension table.
  25. Not selecting the proper exercise for deficient muscle areas.
  26. Not keeping chin on chest, feet under face and elbows wide on parallel dips for pecs.
  27. No knowledge of combining exercises.
  28. Not changing program often enough.
  29. No knowledge of breaking a rut.
  30. Not specializing on slow growing areas.
  31. Not taking supplements.
  32. Lack of concentration during workouts.
  33. Not having an expert to answer your questions.
  34. Unwillingness to accept new or different concepts.
  35. Jogging.

Only thing that really popped up is the idea of getting all four bells to touch during db bp. In fact, doing that externally rotates the humerus, so you’re DEcontracting the pecs. It’s apparently better to start from neutral to bench grip than to go from bench grip to neutral.

[quote]MurrDawg wrote:
This is a list made up by Vince Gironda (obvioulsy made up a while back) of what he thinks are the 35 top bodybuilding mistakes… What do you guys think?

  1. Presses for deltoid.
  2. One arm exercises.
  3. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.

[/quote]

Some good stuff in there, Gironda was definetely a thinker. However, these 3 in particular struck me as being dumb as fuck. Especially after he just told us that bench press is 90% deltoids.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
MurrDawg wrote:
This is a list made up by Vince Gironda (obvioulsy made up a while back) of what he thinks are the 35 top bodybuilding mistakes… What do you guys think?

  1. Presses for deltoid.
  2. One arm exercises.
  3. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.

Some good stuff in there, Gironda was definetely a thinker. However, these 3 in particular struck me as being dumb as fuck. Especially after he just told us that bench press is 90% deltoids.[/quote]

That made me wonder too.

Many of those don’t make sense or they are too general.

How many people actually touch the bar to their chest while chinning? That is the weakest part of the stroke. Limiting your resistance or reps just to get to the peak contracted position in every rep is, arguably, a waste of effort.

Bench pressing is mostly front delts if you don’t pinch your shoulder blades together. Once I started doing this, my chest got very pumped.

Working out more than 45 minutes is not always overtraining. It depends on too many factors.

No leg presses, no “deep knee bends” aka squats, no leg extensions or leg curls on a table-no wonder he had such chicken legs…

Good list, though Sir Mix A Lot says you can do sidebends or situps.

But he’s talk’n about chicks. And if Mix knew anything he would be telling them to squat, give em a big ol tight ass!!!

Sounds like it is both out of date and too specific to his own capabilities… not sure the concept of varying mechanics and varying activation patterns was popular at the time.

Gironda was skinny, period.

Agree with many of the points people have disagreed with thus far.

Especially the over-45 minutes-equals-overtraining concept.

I can count on two hands how many times I’ve had a workout last under 45 minutes in a decade worth of training, and I’d bet most of those times was because something interrupted my workout, not that it was planned that way.

It might be overtraining to go over 45-60 minutes if you’re in an absolutely horrific nutritional state, but if you’re smart, you can definitely workout longer than that and still not overtrain.

Although I’m sure some people on here with unbelievable physiques and incredible strength numbers that they have no proof of would disagree…

ignore the fact that some of the things on the list seem downright crazy to us.

next, consider how TERRIBLE most widely available training information is in 2006.

then, reconsider this list and realize how ahead of his time gironda was. I’m not suggesting he’s the end-all-be-all of training knowledge…but realize that he was making these statements several years before Arnold was publishing ideas like using high rep broomstick twists to chisel the midsection.

I would be surprised if this list was actually written by Gironda. It looks like somebody, who lacked full understanding of his concepts, tried to condense them down to 35 factoids.

For example, “Mixing carbohydrates and proteins” sounds like a some strange derivative of his actual belief: You need fat in order to digest protein. Hence, a recommendation that might have originally sounded like “Don’t eat just protein and carbohydrates” gets bastardized into the completely false “Don’t mix protein and carbohydrates.”

That’s my take on it. Where did you find the list, Murrdawg?

That list should be a joke if it isn’t.
Basically you can’t work your legs in any way and your shoulders and chest will magically grow on their own. I can’t wait to start that program. I going to go and do my first set of laying flat on the ground for 8 hours.

[quote]MurrDawg wrote:
This is a list made up by Vince Gironda (obvioulsy made up a while back) of what he thinks are the 35 top bodybuilding mistakes… What do you guys think?

  1. Over training! (Anything over 45 minutes is over training.)
    ****EVERY HUGE GUY ACROSS THE GLOBE WORKS OUT FOR MORE THEN 45 MINUTES

  2. Working out too slowly.
    ****ARNOLD SAID TAKE YOUR TIME WHEN YOUR TRAINING HEAVY, LOTS OF REST BETWEEN SETS

  3. Full Sit Ups and Leg Raises.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS

  4. Working abdominals every workout.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS

  5. Working upper body and legs on the same day.
    ***Chad Waterbury

  6. Not touching chest to bar and calling it chinning.
    ***I CAN’T DO EVEN 1 REP LIKE THAT AND I HAVE A VERY WIDE BACK FROM YEARS OF “CHINNING”

  7. Not raising up on the big toe when doing Toe Raises (also pulling heels together at counteraction.)
    ****YA RIGHT, LIKE WHO HAS EVER DONE THAT? IF YOUR GENES ARE RIGHT YOUR CALVES WILL BE HUGE REGARDLESS

  8. Bench Presses for Pecs. (90% Front Deltoid.)***AGREED, I PREFER INCLINES

  9. Not touching all four bells together on dumbbell bench work. (90% Deltoid if not performed this way.)
    **YA RIGHT WE’VE ALL SEEN RONNIE’S 200 DB BENCH AND HE DIDN’T DO THEM LIKE THAT

  10. Deep Knee Bends.
    ****DON’T SQUAT AND YOU’LL HAVE A SKINNY FLAT ASS JUST LIKE VINCE

  11. Leg Presses.
    ***I DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO ONE OF THESE SO I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. IF I DID I’M SURE I’D USE IT THOUGH

  12. Under working and over working a muscle by performing too wide a variety of exercises on a given muscle.
    ****GEEZ ONE GUY SAYS DO LOTS OF EXCERCISES ANOTHER SAYS DO FEW??? WHATEVER JUST GET TO THE GYM I SAY, LOL.

  13. Cheating exercises.
    ***YA MAGNUS SAMUELSON IS NEVER GUNNA GET BIG GUNS IF HE KEEPS DOING THOSE 300LBS CHEAT CURLS

  14. Presses for deltoid.
    ***WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO JUST LATERALS???

  15. One arm exercises.
    ***OTHER THEN CONCENTRATION CURLS CAN’T SEE WHERE THI S RELAVENT

  16. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.
    ****I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NUTRITION, EAT EAT EAT IS ALL I KNOW

  17. Behind neck Chins on Pull-down Machine (Rounded Back.)
    ***YA THESE SOUND STUPID

  18. Not working Hyperextensions and forearms on every upper body day.
    ***I ALWAYS WORK THESE IN SOMEHOW

  19. Skipping breakfast.
    ***AMEN

  20. Side Bends.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS

  21. Not ingesting enzymes at every meal.
    ***I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS, LOL.

  22. Not arching back on lat work.
    ***SURE

  23. Leg Extensions.
    ***SEEMS TO BE OUT OF FASHION WITH EVERYONE THESE DAYS AND I DON’T DO THEM BUT HE SAYS NO SQUAT OR LEG PRESSES SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DOO THEN???

  24. Leg Curls on extension table.
    ***AGAIN WHAT THE HELL IS LEFT FOR LEGS???

  25. Not selecting the proper exercise for deficient muscle areas.
    ***MAKES SENCE

  26. Not keeping chin on chest, feet under face and elbows wide on parallel dips for pecs.
    ***YA WELL I’VE BEEN TOLD TO TUCK THE ELBOWS IN TO THE SIDES SO WHATEVER.

  27. No knowledge of combining exercises.
    ***SOUNDS TRUE

  28. Not changing program often enough.
    ***AGREED

  29. No knowledge of breaking a rut.
    ***AGREED

  30. Not specializing on slow growing areas.
    ***AGREED

  31. Not taking supplements.
    ***AGREED

  32. Lack of concentration during workouts.
    ***AGREED

  33. Not having an expert to answer your questions.
    ***WE HAVE T-Nation NOW, PRAISE THE LORD!!!

  34. Unwillingness to accept new or different concepts.
    ***AGREED

  35. Jogging.
    ***AGREED!!! FUCK JOGGING

*just my humble 2 cc’s. BTW i did love Vince. Musclemag was never the same without him.

[quote]Leafblighter wrote:
I would be surprised if this list was actually written by Gironda. It looks like somebody, who lacked full understanding of his concepts, tried to condense them down to 35 factoids.

For example, “Mixing carbohydrates and proteins” sounds like a some strange derivative of his actual belief: You need fat in order to digest protein. Hence, a recommendation that might have originally sounded like “Don’t eat just protein and carbohydrates” gets bastardized into the completely false “Don’t mix protein and carbohydrates.”

That’s my take on it. Where did you find the list, Murrdawg?[/quote]

It definitely was written by Gironda… I got the list from ironguru.com, but had read it previously in either one of his bulletins or his book “The Wild Physique”… cant remember exactly.

I personally think the list is interesting… I think many of the ideas he has in the list were way ahead of their time, a couple are pretty off base, but the majority are interesting to look at and think about.

[quote]Majin wrote:
Gironda was skinny, period.[/quote]

BINGO! And we’ve learned alot since his time, I’d say atleast 25 of those are wrong.

[quote]Majin wrote:
Gironda was skinny, period.[/quote]

Staley is “skinny”

Alwyn Cosgrove is “skinny”

They also make some of the most powerful training programs out there. Gironda was THE bodybuilding coach of his era. When it came to producing champions, he knew what he was doing.

BTW, this post is in no way bashing Cosgrove and Staley. I know that they are both incredibly fit (but are not intending on oiling up and competing) and believe they are two of the most knowledgeable coaches in the industry

[quote]Spartan300 wrote:
MurrDawg wrote:
This is a list made up by Vince Gironda (obvioulsy made up a while back) of what he thinks are the 35 top bodybuilding mistakes… What do you guys think?

  1. Over training! (Anything over 45 minutes is over training.)
    ****EVERY HUGE GUY ACROSS THE GLOBE WORKS OUT FOR MORE THEN 45 MINUTES
    ----And many of the HYYYUUUGE guys take buckets of steroids, something Gironda was against.

  2. Working out too slowly.
    ****ARNOLD SAID TAKE YOUR TIME WHEN YOUR TRAINING HEAVY, LOTS OF REST BETWEEN SETS
    -----Arnold should rarely be cited for anything, the guy’s genetics are one of a kind

  3. Full Sit Ups and Leg Raises.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS
    -----Louie Simmons is a powerlifting coach NOT a bodybuilding coach. His methods produce world champion lifters, not aesthically pleasiing physiques.

  4. Working abdominals every workout.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS
    -----See number 3

  5. Working upper body and legs on the same day.
    ***Chad Waterbury
    ----CW is also a coach who tailors to athletes especially. I am not sure if he would design his programs the same for a competitive bodybuilder.

  6. Not touching chest to bar and calling it chinning.
    ***I CAN’T DO EVEN 1 REP LIKE THAT AND I HAVE A VERY WIDE BACK FROM YEARS OF “CHINNING”
    ----Gironda recommended chinning as a biceps movement.

  7. Not raising up on the big toe when doing Toe Raises (also pulling heels together at counteraction.)
    ****YA RIGHT, LIKE WHO HAS EVER DONE THAT? IF YOUR GENES ARE RIGHT YOUR CALVES WILL BE HUGE REGARDLESS
    ----No comment

  8. Bench Presses for Pecs. (90% Front Deltoid.)***AGREED, I PREFER INCLINES
    -----No comment

  9. Not touching all four bells together on dumbbell bench work. (90% Deltoid if not performed this way.)
    **YA RIGHT WE’VE ALL SEEN RONNIE’S 200 DB BENCH AND HE DIDN’T DO THEM LIKE THAT
    ------Ronnie is an exception, not an example.

  10. Deep Knee Bends.
    ****DON’T SQUAT AND YOU’LL HAVE A SKINNY FLAT ASS JUST LIKE VINCE
    -----Small waist=aesthics.

  11. Leg Presses.
    ***I DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO ONE OF THESE SO I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. IF I DID I’M SURE I’D USE IT THOUGH
    ---- No comment

  12. Under working and over working a muscle by performing too wide a variety of exercises on a given muscle.
    ****GEEZ ONE GUY SAYS DO LOTS OF EXCERCISES ANOTHER SAYS DO FEW??? WHATEVER JUST GET TO THE GYM I SAY, LOL.
    -----No comment

  13. Cheating exercises.
    ***YA MAGNUS SAMUELSON IS NEVER GUNNA GET BIG GUNS IF HE KEEPS DOING THOSE 300LBS CHEAT CURLS
    ------Magnus=FreakGenetics+JUICE+hardwork, beginners probably cant get by with just one part of that equation.

  14. Presses for deltoid.
    ***WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO JUST LATERALS???
    ----He believed that overhead presses overdeveloped the front delts, which created an unbalanced physique.

  15. One arm exercises.
    ***OTHER THEN CONCENTRATION CURLS CAN’T SEE WHERE THI S RELAVENT
    ----Using both limbs at the same time was better (I guess that is what he is saying…)

  16. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.
    ****I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NUTRITION, EAT EAT EAT IS ALL I KNOW
    ------If Gironda’s pupils applied this advice they wouldnt be the top bodybuilders of their time

  17. Behind neck Chins on Pull-down Machine (Rounded Back.)
    ***YA THESE SOUND STUPID
    ----No comment

  18. Not working Hyperextensions and forearms on every upper body day.
    ***I ALWAYS WORK THESE IN SOMEHOW
    ------No comment

  19. Skipping breakfast.
    ***AMEN
    -----No comment

  20. Side Bends.
    ***SEE LOUIE SIMMONS
    ------Side bends give you a bigger waist. It was ideal for bodybuilders to be as big as possible with the smallest possible waist.

  21. Not ingesting enzymes at every meal.
    ***I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS, LOL.
    -----yea me either

  22. Not arching back on lat work.
    ***SURE
    -----Alos recommended by Pavel, take it for what its worth

  23. Leg Extensions.
    ***SEEMS TO BE OUT OF FASHION WITH EVERYONE THESE DAYS AND I DON’T DO THEM BUT HE SAYS NO SQUAT OR LEG PRESSES SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DOO THEN???
    -----no comment

  24. Leg Curls on extension table.
    ***AGAIN WHAT THE HELL IS LEFT FOR LEGS???
    -----No comment

  25. Not selecting the proper exercise for deficient muscle areas.
    ***MAKES SENCE
    ------NC

  26. Not keeping chin on chest, feet under face and elbows wide on parallel dips for pecs.
    ***YA WELL I’VE BEEN TOLD TO TUCK THE ELBOWS IN TO THE SIDES SO WHATEVER.
    -----NC

  27. No knowledge of combining exercises.
    ***SOUNDS TRUE
    ------NC

  28. Not changing program often enough.
    ***AGREED
    -------NC

  29. No knowledge of breaking a rut.
    ***AGREED
    -------NC

  30. Not specializing on slow growing areas.
    ***AGREED
    -------NC

  31. Not taking supplements.
    ***AGREED
    -------NC

  32. Lack of concentration during workouts.
    ***AGREED
    ------NC

  33. Not having an expert to answer your questions.
    ***WE HAVE T-Nation NOW, PRAISE THE LORD!!!
    ------AMEN

  34. Unwillingness to accept new or different concepts.
    ***AGREED
    -------NC

  35. Jogging.
    ***AGREED!!! FUCK JOGGING
    -------NC

*just my humble 2 cc’s. BTW i did love Vince. Musclemag was never the same without him.
[/quote]

In the world of bodybuilding Gironda is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Does this mean all his methods work? HELL NO. Should we lynch him because some of his theories are a little out there? HELL NO.

It is true that he contradicted himself quite a bit, but the man contributed a wealth of knowledge to the world of bodybuilding.

  1. Mixing carbohydrates and protein.

Has he ever heard about anabolism which is created by an insulin reaction to an ingestion of carbs…?