Too Weak to Squat?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
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A buddy of mine asked me to “train” his little brother. I’m not a trainer or a coach, but I lift and have a decent idea of what you should be doing.

His brother is pretty fat, and very out of shape/weak. He’s fairly flexible, but so far I don’t think that’s a good thing. It seems to make it easy for him to get into positions he shouldn’t be in.

Anyways, I wanted to have him try squatting. (I figured the Starting Strength program or something similar would be best - that’s what I did and that’s what I tell all beginners to start with.) When he tried squatting, he was able to go down pretty much ATG (I don’t plan on having him squat this deep, I just wanted to see if he was able to) but couldn’t keep a neutral spine. It rounded a ton. Then I had him squat to an 18-inch box, and he couldn’t even keep his back straight on that one. Deadlifting was pretty much the same. Usually doing like 20 supermans or something to create a bit of a burn in the lower back helps people realize how to correctly brace the lower back, but he could not seem to do it.

GHR’s were pretty horrible - I figured they wouldn’t be good due to the combo of excess weight and weakness, but they were pretty bad. He couldn’t do reverse hypers, even without weight. He couldn’t kick up higher than a couple inches. Back extensions seemed hard for him too. (After failing at squats and deadlifts I thought he could try those other movements to strengthen his posterior chain - I’ve read from guys like Tate that that’s a good approach and can help strengthen the area enough to keep the spine in neutral.)

He can bench and overhead press, but I didn’t want those to become the cornerstones of his program. He couldn’t do anything even resembling a pushup.

Basically, what I’ve found is that he can do some very easy bodyweight things like glute bridges, hip thrusts, leg abductions, bird dogs, supermans, and very brief planks…but he’s been doing those for quite some time now (a few months) and when we attempt to move on to new things he’s completely helpless.

I have no idea what to do to get him able to do things like squats and deads. He can’t seem to progress on reverse hypers, GHR’s, and back extensions either.

He actually can kinda run - brief sprints, that is. He couldn’t run a mile. I know running isn’t the best thing for fat loss, but would some hill sprints or something, and sled pushes/pulls, combined with the few bodyweight movements he can do, get him on track?

He’s been in sports before, so the running doesn’t seem super hard for him. He’s just not good at it.

I want to help him progress but I can’t seem to figure out how. Any ideas? Thanks

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Pushups on the knees, negative pull-ups, bodyweight squats focusing on form, crunches. I’m not sure why you would have him do GHRs…kind of an advanced exercise. If you want him to “progress” you need tracked progression. Track his numbers. Add reps, add seconds to the plank, etc. If he can’t do bodyweight exercises he’s not ready for B.B. lifts.

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He needs to learn to eat well so he can drop some pounds.

He needs to to body weight work then I would do goblet squats before the back squat. Sounds like he needs lots of posterior chain work. Keep it light and high rep to burn off that extra body weight before trying to load him up.

You can’t exercise enough to overcome a poor diet.

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When you say he can’t squat without without rounding his back, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean squat body weight or with additional weight? Cuz, if he can’t squat with just bodyweight that’s more likely a mobility issue as opposed to a strength issue…assuming this guy isn’t like 400lbs or something of course.

Also, with regards the running & certainly sprinting, I would focus just on super-light resistance training + lots of walking plus improved diet to begin with.

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Yeah the GHR’s were just to test stuff out. I didn’t expect him to be amazing at them.

He cannot do pushups on his knees. He can barely do 1 rep with his hands on a platform that’s level with his upper stomach. Should I just work with that? Keep his hands high and progessively lower them?

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Very common situation among overweight beginners. It’s actually fairly unusual for someone to be able to do a decent back squat straight out of the gate.

The goblet squat to box (no pause on the box - just set it at a height he can get down to without his back rounding and get him to lightly tap, not drop on to, the box) is probably going to be his best bet for now.

Once he gets decent at that you can try front squatting, and from there you’d try the back squat. Some people never get to back squatting so don’t try and force it. If his mobility only ever gets him as far as a front squat it’s really no big deal.

As for the deadlift - something like a cable pull through will teach him to hinge at the hips. From there you can progress to a Romanian DL, then pull from blocks, then deadlift from the floor.

Again, though - don’t be in a hurry to progress the movement. Take your time and get him stronger at the “easier” (they still won’t be easy) exercises first before you even think about progressing to a harder variation. Don’t go thinking that just because he can front squat 60k that it’s time to load up a back squat!

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I have talked to him about his diet. Not much is going to change there. I would like it to, but it won’t. He’s very lazy, unmotivated, and honestly, kinda slow (mentally). His parents are very absent - drug addicts, at work all day, and when at home, not helping him do anything that’s good for him. I will continue pushing a healthy diet, but I just don’t think it’s gonna happen, at least not until he’s older and maybe more responsible/motivated.

Are goblet squats ok if his back rounds before he gets anywhere near parallel? I’ve tried doing box goblet squats, but his back rounds the second his hips/knees bend and I’m not sure what to do there.

And for posterior chain work - the movements I mentioned earlier are ok? Just keep doing those?

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Can’t squat with just his bodyweight without rounding. His ankles and hips are very mobile and stretching and doing mobility drills seems to have things worse. He’s not 400 lbs, just a very heavy 150-170 lbs (I’m guessing) on a 13 year old kid.

For super light resistance training - what moves are you thinking of?

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I might suggest trying some resistance bands–put them around his torso and essentially do a “leg press” against the bands. That might work to build enough strength to move to bodyweight squats. I would also be concurrently addressing mobility issues and general aerobic ability which sounds like it is very much needed.

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Thanks I’ll work on the goblet squats to box and some form of hip hinging. We’ve tried hip hinging and again, his back rounds. Should I just keep working on it until he’s able to bend a little bit more each time?

Sounds good though on the rest. We’ll take it slow. And in the meantime, should he be doing upper body movements like benching or overhead pressing, or should he just stick with some bodyweight stuff like pushups and pullups (the easiest verions, of course)?

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Sorry I’m a bit confused by that leg press movement. Any pics you could show me?

What would you recommend for aerobic work? I have him walking 30 min. 3x a week. That’s just when he comes over. I can’t count on him or his parents to make it happen the other 4 days a week.

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I’d probably just go with assisted pull-ups & dips to begin with & some for of goblet or front squat as others have mentioned for lower body + lots of walking or cycling etc on non-lifting days

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No pictures as I just envisioned it. Place the band around the waist as if it was a hoola-hoop. and then lie on the ground so that the lower back/gluts are against the band. Now bring the knees in towards the chest so that the feet can be placed against the band–essentially the same movement as a leg press machine except you are lying down and using a resistance band.

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I’d bet it’s a form issue, and one day it’ll just click.

As for the box squats, obviously I can’t say for sure without seeing the kid in person but I’d bet he’s breaking at his knees, and not his hips. He probably has no idea how to sit back with his hips.

Here’s something you could try: get him to stand against a wall, facing the wall, with his nose about an inch away from the wall. Now get him to squat down without mashing his face against the wall. I bet the first time he tries it he doesn’t get down 6 inches, but with practice he’ll learn how to keep a decent torso and get all the way down (or at least to parallel) without his back rounding.

I can’t promise that’ll work but I’ve seen it work enough times to be confident in it.

Have you tried pull throughs specifically? Get him to stand a foot or so away from a wall (the wall is a very underrated training tool!) and get him to touch the wall with his ass while keeping his spine neutral. Voila! Hip hinge.

Well if he’s not strong enough to do them then that sort of makes your mind up for you. If you’re going to use weights to press I’d use dumbbells rather than a bar for now. Push ups are better done on your feet with your hands on a bench rather than on the floor on your knees. Fat guy pull ups (google them) might work.

There’s still a ton of cool stuff you can do with dumbbells. Remember the kid is young and is going to be thinking about getting ass 24/7 so throw in some fluff like curls and laterals to keep him motivated.

I like your idea about pushing the sled. Back in my PT days I had a client so enormous and so immobile that literally all he could do was push the sled or walk up and down the stairs in a weighted vest. Shit like that works wonders but good luck motivating someone to do it day in, day out.

I don’t think I’d have him sprinting quite yet, unless it was on a bike.

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This is a good idea, yes. He can even do wall pushups. The smith machine is nice for this since you can track progression by lowering the bar a rung each time for him to do pushups on. Squatting in front of a wall is useful too. @losthog is also right, he needs to lose weight, so he needs to be in a caloric deficit. If he’s practicing bodyweight exercises and losing weight simultaneously he should progress well. How old is he?

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He’s 13. Hoping he’ll hit a growth spurt soon and lean out a bit.

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I’ll give that wall squat thing a shot. I think I’ve heard of it with the cue to not let your knees hit the wall, instead of the face, but I’ve never tried it out.

We have done pull throughs a few times - I’ll make them more of a staple.

Fat guy pullups are being done; he’s just so weak that his body is extremely vertical.

Honestly, this kid is a little…different. Still pretty interested in toys and such; I’ve never heard or seen anything from him showing that there’s any interest in the typical 13 year old boy things, but I’ll add in some fluff work to interest him for sure.

I’m planning on buying a sled soon (this is all done out of my garage - we don’t go to a gym), and when I do I think I’ll definitely have him using it. I’ve read that Westside guys don’t run with it; they just walk. I think Jim Wendler has said he’s run with it…this kid is neither Jim nor a Westside lifter, but what should he be doing? Running, or walking, or both, with the sled?

And what’s a good way to program it? As far as sets, distance, time, etc?

I’m also planning on getting a Airdyne bike soon, and I’ll probably have him doing some type of warmup with it or on an inclined treadmill for 10 minutes or so, and then maybe a Tabata type thing at the end on the bike. I think he’ll be dying at the end of that but he’ll be capable of it nevertheless.

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OK that makes more sense. We’ll try that out.

Do you have any advice regarding the aerobic work you mentioned, or what you were thinking of?

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When I have no idea what I’m doing, I just tell the person. It’s a better option than posting a whole bunch of issues to a forum then hoping you somehow strike gold when you get back to them.

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He needs to just move…start by walking everyday