T Nation

Too Many Supplements?


First off, let me start by saying I got most of this list from this article:


I know that the "raw" supplements aren't redundant and won't counteract eachother. What I'm worried about is if maybe some of the Biotest supplements will. I'm more worried about redundancy (due to the epic cost of this list) than the counteraction. I've read and researched these things exhaustively and think it's ok, but I just wanted to get your opinions on it.

If you think there's any way to cut some stuff out, by all means, let me know. $370/month on supplements is more than my car payment! lol

Beta-alanine: 2 caps in morning, 2 pre, 2 post
Creatine: 5g morning, 5g pre, 5g post, 5g bed
BCAA: 10g pre, 15g during
Protein: 30g whey breakfast, 72g weight gain shake sipped throughout the day, 36g whey post workout, 36g casein at bed
Betaine HCL (Digestive enzyme): 2 caps with each meal Bromelain (Digestive enzyme): 1 cap with each meal

Power Drive: 1 scoop pre, 1 scoop post
Surge Recovery: 1 scoop during
Surge Workout Fuel: 2 scoops sipped on pre, during, and post

What ya think? If it's good like it is, I'm going to go ballz out in the gym, 4 days/week, for the amount of time I have all of it. If I don't look like CT after a month, I'll probably scale back. lol


i think that spending more on your supplements per month then your car payment is a bit irresponsible and retarded.

buy more real food and pay better attention to your training/diet.


Well, I think my training and diet are pretty well in check. I've gained 7 pounds and dropped a % of bodyfat in 4.5 weeks with the supplements I have now, which is primarily everything listed above without the Biotest stuff. I also take less than the recommended servings of all that stuff.

I'm lookin for a game-changer and something that's gonna make me GROW.

But thanks for your assumptions, ass.


The protein and Surge would be considered food by many.

The high BCAA intake is going to cost quite a bit I am guessing, unless you are doing bulk powder. That would be my first to cut down on if you are worried about cost issues. BCAAs are great though.

Beta Alanine is also a bit more costly, but if it works for you great. SWF does contain beta though too so that may effect dosages and the timing. Maybe someone else can shed some light on that issue

Is this a new regiment or something you have built over time. I would start with the basics, then add one at a time to evaluate if that supplement is worth it.

Surge Workout Fuel is also a cost that may not be justified. It sounds like you are dedicated so again you might want to add that after running the others for a while to see if it fits into your requirements.

I dont see you taking a lot of off the wall supplements though so it doesn't seem like "too many" or just plain unnecessary in the sense they won't do much or anything. Although if you are talking about what's "necessary" you can cut back depending on

I am not familiar with the enzymes to make a comment but I know a lot of people swear by them as a healthy addition.

Also I am assuming because you said that you researched all of these extensively that they fit your goals.


Are your stats still correct?


If you're taking bcaa peri-workout and beta-alanine throughout the day, you could replace the Surge Workout Fuel with some gatorade and whey.

also, is 20g of creatine every day really necessary?

neverymind on the gatorade... i see you wanna have Surge Recovery during your workout. You could probably eliminate the Surge Workout Fuel all together.


As I said earlier, I am currently taking everything but the Biotest stuff and the digestive enzymes, but not in the recommended dosages (just to stretch the money a little). I also take a pre-workout drink called Purple Wraath from Controlled Labs. It has the citruline malate, beta-alanine, and Betain anhydrous mixture in it:


which will be replaced by the SWF.

Yes, my stats are current as of the first post. 4 weeks ago I was 173 lbs. @ 11.7% bodyfat. I'm now 180 lbs. @ ~10% bf.

I'll be continuing my current workout and bulking diet for the next 6 weeks. I really just want to explode. I know I have to work for it, but obviously I have been and will continue to do so.


keep lookin, you'll find it one day. (this forum need an eye-rolling smiley)


First, you don't need that much creatine. Most people simply take 5g post workout.

Next, why would you need Power Drive after your workout?

Same with Surge Workout Fuel... you don't need it post. It's for your workout.

The rest is ok. I will echo some of the others in saying that you probably don't need the Surge Workout Fuel.


I have seen a couple of articles suggesting the Power Drive post work out. I think the idea was to refuel or recharge your nervous system after a work out. I don't know if that would be necessary here but there is an idea behind it. Actually the article the op linked to has that in post workout


Well, for one thing, you could replace a lot of those shakes you have. Powdered whey/weight gainers and such are always more expensive per serving than actual food.

Also, you've got like 3 different shakes going on pre/during and post workout. If those have creatine in them, ditch the creatine you're taking on top of it, I forget where, but I've read that more than 10g of creatine in a day is wasted anyway.

Stick with a few basic products that fill a nutritional gap you may have. You're getting tons of protein from powders, so that could easily be changed to whole food. You have too many different "workout" shakes going on as well. No need for it at all. Either ditch the Power Drive and Recovery, or the Workout Fuel.

Also...unless I'm mistaken, a human being shouldn't need 2 different digestive enzymes with each meal to process their food. If you feel like you absolutely need to take them, take them once a day (around mid-day) to help things along.


Again....look at my original post and read the article I posted about supplements by CT.

I was merely trying to follow (as close as possible) what CT was prescribing, both quantity and type. The only thing on my list that isn't in the article is the SWF.

Right now I currently take 5g of creatine in the morning and 5g pre-workout. The 2 extra dosages are what CT recommends.

To look at my full diet and workout routine, check out this entry on my blog:


To add to this, for those that don't want to click and read, I am trying to bulk. I eat 3,000 to 3,500 calories/day including "all" my protein shakes (that don't include creatine). I really don't think 3/day is out of the question when I have them timed the way I do.


I think you need to add 11-T Receptormax Finibar and REZ-V.


lol; your welcome.

well suggestion certain supplements to someone is sorta tricky. yeah i could say "X" worked for me; but it might not work for you. you know what I mean?

that being said, about 5yrs ago I used two tubes of animal m-stak and made some pretty good gains. I can't recall numbers or anything b/c it Was so long ago...but i do remember a few guys i lift with telling me that i got stronger and bigger then.

also, sometimes just taking yourself off all the supplements and high protein diet for 3-4 weeks will stimulate growth when you get back on them; and that's cheap as shit!

ass. haha


Too much $$$!!! While supps certainly have their place, marketing has led people to believe they're far more important than they are. There are plenty of huge guys who don't even use protein powder and creatine. People should stop stressing about optimizing, that shit increases cortisol production!

preWO- caffeine, bread $0.10
PWO- cream of rice, whey isolate, creatine, glutamine $1.00

If your $370/month is 100% optimum, the above is 95% optimum. Save your cash.


Before I comment, I need to know what your aspiring to be (weightlifter, amatuer bodybuilder, etc.)

Because if your the die-hard gym goer, with no particular goal in mind I would really cut all of those supplements in half, literally.

Thib receives supplements at a discount/free due to his contributions for this website for the past 5-6 some odd years; and has to keep an image/reputation to maintain.

You on the other hand, do not, or maybe you do? I attempted looking through your profile and found nothing, so it would be nice to receive a little information about you.


Alrighty, here I go....

I played football all the way through college (small time D3 stuff) at a fairly scrawny, but very athletic 5'9 170 lb. My body is very happy at that weight and I have never made a conscious effort to bulk up and gain weight. I've always trained for strength and explosion, not size.

I've recently made the decision to try do a 180 in my career. I'm currently an electrical engineer, but am working on becoming a PT with the hopes and dreams of opening my own gym following the DeFranco model.

So, for the past 4 weeks and the upcomming 6, I am bulking, trying to pack on as much lean muscle as possible. Again, so far I'm up 7 lb., down 1%'ish of bf, and currently AM taking half of what I have listed.

So, yes, I could continue doing everything exactly the same and see some pretty good results. I'm not looking for good results. I'm looking for the results that could be proudly boasted on some top-of-the-line trainer's website.

By no means am I a n00b, and I do know what I'm talking about. I just have absolutely no experience with the Biotest products and am unaware of their usages other than what they print on the label. This, for the most part, is what I have been (or at least meaning to) asking about in this post. If it weren't for them, I would have never even posted because I am comfortable with the basic stuff that is listed.

After I get done bulking, I will resume my strength training and hope to compete in my first powerlifting meet within the next year.

To get a better understanding, here's a link to my blog. It's pretty amateurish right now, but I've hired a web designer to re-design it in the next couple of weeks.



If you are just your average gym rate and not aspiring to get on the stage/platform/compete I am not seeing the reason to be taking, what, $300+ in supplements/month. It would be cheaper to look into AAS....


I posted something an hour ago, why did it not show up?


Just eat more! You posted on your website that you eat 3,000 cal-3,500 cal and continue to say it's "not for the faint of heart". Try eating 5,000 calories and you'll gain weight and won't need to spend $380+ on supplements.


Ha ha. True. But on days when I hit the 3500 mark I feel like I'm waddling down the halls at work and that I could burst if anyone were to run into me a little too hard. I couldn't imagine 5,000. lol

Well, thanks to some of you, I think I'm going to cut out the Power Drive and Surge Recovery. Since I'm already taking that other stuff and it's working, I'll probably just get it and try out the SWF as soon as I'm done with my Purple Wraath.