T Nation

tommyboy to bill roberts

Bill, I plan on doing the fat fast for the next several weeks. Would you recomend 4AD-EC or MAG10 for retention of muscle mass? I thought MAG 10 at first, but being I’m cutting and not bulking, it almost seems like a waste for that product. Also, how long does the 4AD-EC last using the recomended dosing?

I’d like to know the answer to this, too, as the BioTest phone rep who sold me on the Mag-10 said it would be effective for maintaining lean mass while in a cutting phase. Bill, your thoughts?

Of course MAG-10 will likely work better, but you will be able to use 4-AD for a longer time period without much testosterone suppression. How long to do plan to do the Fat Fast and then subsequent dieting with androgen support. If you answer those questions, Bill or someone else may be able to give you a better answer.

I plan on starting the fat fast on 4/22 and will probably continue for about 28-30 days as was proposed in the fat fast article. I know Mag 10 is a stronger product, but I can do without the suppression and also it seems a waste to use MAG 10 if I’m not on a bulking cycle. Also the cost can be a factor as 4AD is much cheaper

It depends. If, as I tend to prefer to do,
I were doing fairly severe dieting (e.g. 8 cal per lb LBM per day) for a limited time
like 2 weeks, and money were little issue I would certainly choose the MAG-10. If I were planning on a much longer dieting period, then the lower-suppressive quality of 4-AD-EC would be an advantage, and price would be even more of an issue. I would tend towards the 4-AD-EC in that case.

What about if someone dieting for 8 weeks exactly, somewhat of an extreme diet, going with mag-10 for 2 weeks then followed by 4adec for 2 weeks with tribex and vitex, switching back to mag-10 for two more weeks, then followed again with 4adec with tribex and vitex? or would you just simply recommend eight weeks of oral winstrol with the first two weeks including the Mag-10? my diet will mostly likely be 200 carbs and 150 pro. with 15 fat. Meltdown training=4weeks followed by Fat to Fire for four weeks.

What type of macronutrient profile would you use on a severe diet like 8 kcal/lb of LBM?

Dirk, all that sounds fine, although 15 grams
of fat per day certainly is super low. It sounds as if you’re planning to consume only
supplement sources of protein. I’ve done that myself (I’m not one of those that has digestive problems with an all-MRP diet) but most do like having a little real food along the way especially for 8 weeks.

Justin, on 8 cal/lb/day, I get one gram of
protein per lb LBM, and then the remainder
can be split between carbs and fats either
as mostly carbs with fats being only supplements, or can be split isocalorically,
or according to JB’s idea of P+C in the earlier part of the day and P+F in the latter part. I tend to keep it towards low fat except I may have a can of sardines in the evening.