I have run a number of 2 on / 1 off cycles quite happily and successfully.
That is figuring “on” days as any day that there is enough in the system to still be suppressed. So for example if using 50 mg/day TA, the last injection day is day 12, and for that matter being in the morning of that day.
As for a thought that trenbolone is highly suppressive, that is true in the sense of being highly suppressive while in the system but not in the sense of having lingering adverse effect if the cycle is this short.
As for a thought that trenbolone is highly suppressive, that is true in the sense of being highly suppressive while in the system but not in the sense of having lingering adverse effect if the cycle is this short.[/quote]
That’s what i was thinking, i was just surprised no one had mentioned it in this thread yet because i would have thought it would be one of the best drugs to use in a 2 on 2 off
In fact I’m considering doing this for my next cycle
Tren A, Test Prop and maybe Dbol
2 on, 2 off
or 2 on, 3 off
repeat 3 times
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
rsg wrote:
Are you referring to MAG-10 or just steroids in general (I ask this, as you have addressed Bill directly - I have (only?) seen Bill speaking about MAG-10 when questions have been posed).
Both really. Bill has a great amount of experience with other T agents. He had talked about LH sensitivity being very high after 2 weeks, but then dropping off rapidly as time “on” got greater. He said the high LH sensitivity was the reason you could rebound fast. I was wondering if anyone had tried or was thinking about trying to abbreviate off time below 2 weeks, or what they’d felt about how recovery went on 2 weeks between cycles.[/quote]
This is interesting… if LH sensitivity is high, then it would be helpful to up LH as quickly as possible, correct? Would tribulus be helpful in PCT for this? I’ve heard a lot of bunk stuff about trib, but since it supposedly increases test entirely by increasing LH production, wouldn’t it be helpful in this instance (unless I’m misunderstanding something…)
For the $20 for TRIBEX gold I’m thinking it might be worth it if it means keeping more of my gains…
Yes, that would be so with that much testosterone enanthate. I have known of a gram on the first day being used successfully and orals to beef out the remainder. But really propionate is the more suited way to go, for testosterone esters.
Anyway you slice it, any amount of enanthate lasts longer.
Of course there winds up being a matter of degree according to how much. If say for example your situation is that you’re just a touch short of propionate and wonder if it would be OK to inject say 200 mg of enanthate on Day 1 to get your total where it wants to be, sure, that would have no substantive effect on recovery.
That is a lower number than I’d have to pick for illustration, but as quite substantially larger numbers would be a matter of degrees of grey (at best) I didn’t want to use such for illustration.
These short cycle protocol(s) seem to be the way I should procede. However, I do have a “newbish” type of question. ED injections of TEST P are what is called for but could one/me/I possibly get away with EOD or even 3/week injections, assuming I adjust the dosage accordingly?
You can get away with every other day for testosterone propionate. I think every day is a little better though.
Also if using a substantial dose, since it is only 100 mg/mL, when injecting 1 mL at a time with an insulin syringe (the best way: far easier on the tissues) it’s not really more convenient to do two injections of 1 mL every other day than to do one injection of 1 mL every day.
The whole ‘prop holds less water than longer esters’ issue is down to injection frequency i think.
You will see that when using Enanthate - even at E3D intervals, the dosages are higher, and the fluctuation is bigger - more aromatisation and a higher wavelength in serum levels of the Androgen and its relevant enzymes (aromatase and 5-AR).
Prop is injected daily or EOD - more frequently than a longer ester, and as such it has lower doses (for the same weekly total) and less to no fluctuation in levels (no fluctuation with daily injects). This means that water and other sides are controlled and stable compared to less frequent injections.
I find that if i inject cyp or enanth daily, then i have less sides - less water too.
THIS is why i inject as frequently as possible.
(i do tend to inject biweekly however if running 2 long esters IF i am not concerned with water… but i find with test water is subcut, whilst with deca and dbol (and test injected daily) it is more intramuscular.
In regards to 2 week cycles on/off you have mentioned in the past that a SERM like nolva is best for PCT in the in between weeks. However some people do not use anything in those 2 weeks in between and claim a natural rebound effect. However you have also mentioned if one was without a serm that Biotest’s Alpha Male might work b/c of the vitex more so then the trib. Could you corect me if I have this wrong? Many people say/think all natural test boosters suck. Thanks.
Not necessarily moreso due to the Vitex than the other ingredients, but rather that I’d found it an important addition to Tribulus.
It worked for me, in terms of being better than doing nothing and adequate to the demand placed by the shorter cycle. I went back to using a SERM (Clomid) after the trial as I do think that is better. These days I rely on letrozole.
Whether everyone would do better with that than with nothing in the context of 2 week cycles, I cannot say. I have only the single-case (though through many cycles) personal experience.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
You can get away with every other day for testosterone propionate. I think every day is a little better though.
Also if using a substantial dose, since it is only 100 mg/mL, when injecting 1 mL at a time with an insulin syringe (the best way: far easier on the tissues) it’s not really more convenient to do two injections of 1 mL every other day than to do one injection of 1 mL every day.[/quote]
You can use an insulin syringe to inject test p? Doesn’t it need to be IM injected?
Probably the reason why not is that people in general, including “steroid gurus,” assumed it was impossible.
After all, it’s hard enough to push through a 25 gauge, so “obviously” a 29 gauge would be just out of the question.
Well, that is ignoring that the cross-sectional area of the plunger of the insulin syringe is much less, so regardless of more psi being needed for same flow rate, force needed on the plunger is no greater.
Even Dan Duchaine would not believe me on this and continued saying it was impossible regardless of me telling him I did it all the time. He just insisted it was impossible.
So a lot of that has still hung on. I have a suspicion that even today most think it is impossible.
Or fear (but with no need, assuming that there isn’t a thick fat layer at the injection site) that the needle is not long enough.