T Nation

To the 2-3 Weeker's/Bill Roberts

Great discussion guys. This is exactly the type of thing I was hoping for. I for one would be interested in reading another couple logs.

Is said feline healthy and safe, or was it put down? That would be a huge loss.

jsbrook:

You know, as far as off time between the two week cycles, my intuition says that PCT shouldn’t be needed (and Tone seems to agree). But I think it might be interesting to get some LH stimulating supps around (Alpha Male, or something more serious) to push levels up even quicker in the off weeks. My understanding of what Mr. Roberts was saying was that while your LH sensitivity is up, but I’m assuming that actual levels of LH are way down. Hence a test/LH booster of the natural kind might be called for.

I dunno. This is all speculation on my part, but then that’s what I asked the question for anyway :).

Tone, great posts btw.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Tone, great posts btw. [/quote]

         Thanks, I really enjoy talking about this subject. I suppose some LH stim would be helpful, but I haven't really felt the need for one yet. It looks like I'm getting this next two weeker in order here, so I should have a comparison running soon here. I already started the log again, as I had deleted a boatload of old posts in this forum, and it got switched out to bodybuilding where it didn't belong. Took a while to get it allowed back, but I have it up and running now. 

Just started my routine back up again today after deloading all last week from the previous month. I’ve been rehabbing my delts, and had to stop all chest work, but am putting that back in now, and the routine is rock solid for a comparison. Schwarzenegger created it specifically for me to hit the wheels hard along with back, and arms at a maintenance level.

Anyway, it’s here for you guys to scope out when you feel like it, and it will be of the two week off/on method we’re discussing. I am going to compare the strength/hypertrophy gains between the last months gains from var/dbol, to this next round with drol/winnie as I think I mentioned here already.

             Great posting by all here,

                  ToneBone

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Great discussion guys. This is exactly the type of thing I was hoping for. I for one would be interested in reading another couple logs.

Is said feline healthy and safe, or was it put down? That would be a huge loss.

jsbrook:

You know, as far as off time between the two week cycles, my intuition says that PCT shouldn’t be needed (and Tone seems to agree). But I think it might be interesting to get some LH stimulating supps around (Alpha Male, or something more serious) to push levels up even quicker in the off weeks. My understanding of what Mr. Roberts was saying was that while your LH sensitivity is up, but I’m assuming that actual levels of LH are way down. Hence a test/LH booster of the natural kind might be called for.

I dunno. This is all speculation on my part, but then that’s what I asked the question for anyway :).[/quote]

Yeah. If not actually using nolva or clomid, it would still make sense to me to use a natural T booster during the off periods.

Dave,
Sounds interesting. I would more like to read what you have outlined doubled for that matter. Should you have the time and money to invest in that obviously. Then you can get an idea as to what the actual revovery will be (if any) and if you are supressed at all at he end of the 14wk period.

Also, d bol virgin or not, double that dosage to 10mg x 4 times per day.

Good luck.

jsbrook wrote:
Yeah. If not actually using nolva or clomid, it would still make sense to me to use a natural T booster during the off periods.

Several years ago i tried a similar cycle with dianabol and anavar, this combination due to class 1,2 reactions etc,
during the 2 week off period, i used DHEA and nolva @ 20mg e3d.
Now the nolva was because of a gyno problem that didnt exist but in my head at the time it did. Now, maybe the nolva was not relevant, but i was most impressed with dhea. My strength was constantly increasing even on day 14 of the off periods and that cycle i gained 16lbs, i continued dhea supplementation at 300mg a day for 12 weeks thereafter and kept a rock hard 13lbs, dropped from 11% to 9%bf as well, only adverse effect was blood pressure being so high i thought i was gonna keel over lol.

Thats my experience anyhow!

I was always curious about dbol/anavar combo. It seemed like a good idea in theory. What kind of dosage did you use? Interesting that you used DHEA. It makes sense to use nolva even on a two weeker with Dbol since you never know how you will react to it. Better safe than sorry.

dbol dosage was 50mg a day, divided into 5 doses as a means of keeping the blood levels stable and the anavar, which for once i had access to cheaply, was at 50mg morning, 50mg evening, so 150mg orals a day, explains the blood pressure and the ensuing liver transplant j/k lol

I’ve had great success with the 2 on/4 off - it’s my favorite cycle which I’ve done God knows how many times.

Now from what Bill Roberts said, the 3-5 week cycles are the worst in terms of cost/benefit ratio, meaning, 3-5 weeks are long enough to suppress your natural testosterone production and increase the recovery period, but not long enough to get sizable benefits. Meaning, your cycles should either be 2 weeks on or 6-8 weeks on.

Personally, I love the 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, because I can basically go as heavy with steroid use as I want, with multiple orals and injectables like propionate, enanthate (if load up on it on the first day of your cycle) and winstrol is very useful here, since it doesn’t have a classic half-life.

This sort of heavy use does suppress your natural hormone production, but I always do use Clomid after the cycle, and recovery after 2 weeks on is extremely quick, while the gains you make are nothing short of spectacular.

I once added Anadrol to the stack (I’ve tried that once), and I gained 11 kilograms in 2 weeks! That’s 24 lbs! And yeah, sure, there was a lot of water retention there (which is why I dislike Anadrol) and some fat gain too, but the water goes away after 4-5 days and you’re left with an extremely impressive mass gain.

As for 2 on/2 off, you’re not giving your receptors enough time to recover, I think. I wouldn’t do that if I were you, even with Clomid.

Interesting. Thanks for the post.

[quote]Abaddon wrote:
I’ve had great success with the 2 on/4 off - it’s my favorite cycle which I’ve done God knows how many times.

Now from what Bill Roberts said, the 3-5 week cycles are the worst in terms of cost/benefit ratio, meaning, 3-5 weeks are long enough to suppress your natural testosterone production and increase the recovery period, but not long enough to get sizable benefits. Meaning, your cycles should either be 2 weeks on or 6-8 weeks on.

Personally, I love the 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, because I can basically go as heavy with steroid use as I want, with multiple orals and injectables like propionate, enanthate (if load up on it on the first day of your cycle) and winstrol is very useful here, since it doesn’t have a classic half-life.

This sort of heavy use does suppress your natural hormone production, but I always do use Clomid after the cycle, and recovery after 2 weeks on is extremely quick, while the gains you make are nothing short of spectacular.

I once added Anadrol to the stack (I’ve tried that once), and I gained 11 kilograms in 2 weeks! That’s 24 lbs! And yeah, sure, there was a lot of water retention there (which is why I dislike Anadrol) and some fat gain too, but the water goes away after 4-5 days and you’re left with an extremely impressive mass gain.

As for 2 on/2 off, you’re not giving your receptors enough time to recover, I think. I wouldn’t do that if I were you, even with Clomid.[/quote]

           Yeah nice post bud, but I don't agree 100% with the two on two off completely shutting you down. At two weeks only the hypothalamus is shutdown, and your pituitary is still going, even now being "sensitized" to getting more out of the lower GnRH from the hypo than normal, and then sending the LH down to the testes and from there you have your natural testosterone, so that's why it's a very quick rebound back to normal. Once you go past the 3 week mark though, then your pituitary shuts down and now your test is zero cause there's nothing going to the testes now ie: LH. Now it's a lot longer haul to get the test back up to normal levels see?

     I'm no expert, but I think there's some validity to what I wrote. That's just my opinion based on what I read from Bill R though and from anatomy. Anyway, to each his own, sounds solid, and you definitely don't hurt going with four off that's for sure. You just don't have that "hypersensitive" pituitary reaction for that long I don't think, but it's a mute point then. I'm just saying that you can do a few 2 on/2 off, then take your longer spell off and keep your gains that's all.

         Again, good experience and posting.

                  ToneBone

Sounds like a good combo Testanabol, thanks for posting.
I heard good things about 100mg of var/day.

Interesting… so would a front load of Test E 1500mg ONCE work in a short cycle but repeatable say every 6 weeks?
So Far 750mg a week hasnt caused any problems in the past.GYNO that is. I have Nolva and clomid also … just pondering this. I am still in PCT from my cycle wich I had to cut short. Contemplationg another in 8 weeks. or after I am sure I have recovered completley.

Bumping this bad boy…

Got a question, during the 2 weeks off did you guys dose orals in them morning like bill talks about in his article? I’m curious as to whether or not that will truly inhibit hpta recovery in those off weeks.

There is nothing wrong with taking 20mgs of d-bol a day. If it is real it will be very effective at that dose. As for these short cycles, I don’t know. I usually really start feeling the effects at the 3-4 week mark, even the orals although you do feel a bit more in the start-up with orals. I would think these short cycles may be ok for dropping bodyfat, maybe.

[quote]OUToftheBOX wrote:
Interesting… so would a front load of Test E 1500mg ONCE work in a short cycle but repeatable say every 6 weeks?
So Far 750mg a week hasnt caused any problems in the past.GYNO that is. I have Nolva and clomid also … just pondering this. I am still in PCT from my cycle wich I had to cut short. Contemplationg another in 8 weeks. or after I am sure I have recovered completley.[/quote]
Yes, I think front load should work, I’ve done it myself a few time, but certainly not if it’s the only steroid you are using, that is, I would still add the orals. The great thing here is that with a 2-week long cycle, you can do some “crazy shit”, like 50 mg D-bol, 50-80 mg Anavar, 20-50 mg Winstrol per day - around 150 mg or oral anabolics!

I would never even consider anything of this sort on a longer cycle, but a 2-week long one is too short to give your body a serious strain. (KEEP IN MIND, everyone’s tolerance level differs!!!) You can go nuclear with your dosages and the growth burst is amazing. Of course, there are limits, you need to access yourself.

I knew one guy in Thailand who took 9 Anadrol tabs a day (that’s 450 mg!), ended up with an inflamed liver and had to quit taking steroids altogether.

[quote]ozarkabrand wrote:
Bumping this bad boy…

Got a question, during the 2 weeks off did you guys dose orals in them morning like bill talks about in his article? I’m curious as to whether or not that will truly inhibit hpta recovery in those off weeks.
[/quote]
Personally, I’ve never tried it, because of the dosages I use. When I’m off, I’m off. I give my body time to recover completely.

[quote]joeblow wrote:
There is nothing wrong with taking 20mgs of d-bol a day. If it is real it will be very effective at that dose. As for these short cycles, I don’t know. I usually really start feeling the effects at the 3-4 week mark, even the orals although you do feel a bit more in the start-up with orals. I would think these short cycles may be ok for dropping bodyfat, maybe.[/quote]
I agree. It’s a different approach. 20 mgs is slow and steady progress. With a short megadose cycle, you start feeling in on day 4 and by day 14 you can’t believe the changes you see in the mirror.

very interesting thread guys

anyone have any thoughts on using tren A in this manner (2 on, 2 off) with test and Dbol or something?

or is Tren A too suppressive to allow recovery in the 2 weeks off period?

[quote]brentcozi wrote:
very interesting thread guys

anyone have any thoughts on using tren A in this manner (2 on, 2 off) with test and Dbol or something?

or is Tren A too suppressive to allow recovery in the 2 weeks off period? [/quote]

I have limited experience with these kinds of cycles except I have done 2 weeks of M1T on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on. I had good luck with that.

But, I think 2 weeks of a solid dose of tren A/test with 3 weeks off would be nice. 4 weeks sounds a little too long off, 2 maybe a little short for something as suppressive as tren. So in a 7 week period you could have potentially the results of 4 weeks on tren/test with less shutdown.