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To the 2-3 Weeker's/Bill Roberts

So gents, I’ve read before (from Mr. Roberts) that the “2 on 2 off” protocol is easier on recovery relative to the “8 weeks on” and somewhat more efficient because of the strength carryover during each of the 1st off weeks.

I was wondering if you’ve found this to be true in your personal experience when trying 2-3 week cycles? I’m also wondering if you’ve thought about trying to shorten the off time by one week–e.g. 2-on 1-off 2-on set-up to spend even more time on, while still perhaps making recovery a bit easier in the end? Thoughts? (Especially if Mr. Roberts reads this)

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Are you referring to MAG-10 or just steroids in general (I ask this, as you have addressed Bill directly - I have (only?) seen Bill speaking about Mag-10 when questions have been posed).

BTW, Bushy - hope things are going well!

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
So gents, I’ve read before (from Mr. Roberts) that the “2 on 2 off” protocol is easier on recovery relative to the “8 weeks on” and somewhat more efficient because of the strength carryover during each of the 1st off weeks.

I was wondering if you’ve found this to be true in your personal experience when trying 2-3 week cycles? I’m also wondering if you’ve thought about trying to shorten the off time by one week–e.g. 2-on 1-off 2-on set-up to spend even more time on, while still perhaps making recovery a bit easier in the end? Thoughts? (Especially if Mr. Roberts reads this)[/quote]

        Hey Aragorn, while I'm no vet, I did run my share of two week orals, several of which back to back with two off. If you are interested in my opinion, here it is..I think Bill was spot on and it worked with the orals just fine and exactly like he said it would for the injecs. While my experience with bushy's 3 weeker tanked something terrible, that was due to my own inexperience and poor preperation and thought on it. 

         Again though the orals were a completely difft story. I did those very well, and indeed had fantastic strength/hypertrophy gains well into the two off weeks. On your idea of reducing the two off to one only, Bill I believe touched on this to basicly say there wouldn't be enough time off between the cycles to keep shutdown at a minimum if done that way, though it would/could be a worthwhile experiment. I don't want to speak for Bill, but I'm pretty sure when I was researching his posts on the subject that I had read him indicating what I said previously here.

         I am getting ready to possibly go another two weeks of the ol favorite Anastrol 75, I think you probably know what that is/was. I'm going to run a thread if and when it happens here soon.

         Just offering up my opinion/experience, hope it gave some insight. 

                  ToneBone

After the “3-week study” as outline by Bushy, I found strength to continue smoothly post cycle, and recovery “felt” pretty much instant. I have thought about 3-on, 2-off, etc, but am yet to give a go. Soon though, if all goes well.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
We tried this with the ‘3 week cycle’ study thread. Mixed results, though it has to be said that the studies were by no means exhaustive, since it wasn’t possible to provide each volunteer with enough stock to run say 4 x 3 weeks.

In retrospect, I think it would have been better to have picked 2 relatively experienced users, and furnish them with sufficient gear to run multiple small cycles, but with two differnet drug protocols, eg. test/mast mix and test/mast mix with NPP.

Or test/mast and test/mast + oral.

Actually, I am just now realising that since all my ‘goodies’ were confiscated, I can never run another study with you guys :frowning:

That’s a damn shame, but a necessary thing…

Bushy[/quote]

Interesting. I wasn’t aware it’d been discussed at length in that thread.

[quote]rsg wrote:
Are you referring to MAG-10 or just steroids in general (I ask this, as you have addressed Bill directly - I have (only?) seen Bill speaking about Mag-10 when questions have been posed).

[/quote]

Both really. Bill has a great amount of experience with other T agents. He had talked about LH sensitivity being very high after 2 weeks, but then dropping off rapidly as time “on” got greater. He said the high LH sensitivity was the reason you could rebound fast. I was wondering if anyone had tried or was thinking about trying to abbreviate off time below 2 weeks, or what they’d felt about how recovery went on 2 weeks between cycles.

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
After the “3-week study” as outline by Bushy, I found strength to continue smoothly post cycle, and recovery “felt” pretty much instant. I have thought about 3-on, 2-off, etc, but am yet to give a go. Soon though, if all goes well. [/quote]

Thanks this is the type of info I was wondering about.

Anyone else?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
After the “3-week study” as outline by Bushy, I found strength to continue smoothly post cycle, and recovery “felt” pretty much instant. I have thought about 3-on, 2-off, etc, but am yet to give a go. Soon though, if all goes well.

Thanks this is the type of info I was wondering about.

Anyone else?[/quote]

I used the protocol on several two week oral runs, the most impressive being drol/winstrol at 100/50mg each respectively per day. I believe Bill mentioned exactly that which you described, and that was when I was researching it and getting info from bushy also. For this reason I ALWAYS did my cycles in that manner, two on/two off, and it worked like a charm.

The strength/hypertrophy gains just kept going right into the two off weeks, it was pretty impressive and surprising to me, though I had figured it to be accurate coming from Bill and Bushy too. Like I said, the gains were rock solid, and to this day that is my favorite oral combo, and cycle length for them. You kind of reach a nice "higher level by the second off week, and then if you do a back to back and start up again, you’re in a much better position than if you would have just run a 4 weeker and tried to recover and retain gains.

You never seem to lose anything, then you start up again at a higher plateu, and the whole process starts anew. I loved it. Now I know injectables would probably be the same, or in Daves and others case where they seem to go for 3 weeks over the two weeks on, there still seems to be no problem. But I understood it to be the dividing line for best recovery at two weeks on full strength, then two off. The one off sounds good too, but I thought Bill had recommended two off and I experienced strong gains in both off weeks so I would still go with two to be safe and fully back ready to go.

          Just my opinion and I'm no vet but do have a decent amount of oral experimentation under my belt, especially the two weekers. Fact is I'm about to begin another one if things go right here soon. I'll be happy to log it down as usual.

                  good thread,

                   ToneBone

Here is the thread from the experiment and most of the guys talk about how they are feeling on cycle with the different compounds…

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1759750

I think cadav was a fan, if memory serves…

Alright Tonebone me old mucker??

I’ve been pondering something for a while, and your contribution/summary just then has nudged me over the edge, I think.

You see, I was planning on running a 4 weeker, test prop 700mg EW + dbol 20mg ED (I know the dbol is a little low, but I’m a dbol virgin haha).

I have read Bill Roberts’ 2 on 4 off article several times over, and have always been intrigued, until a fair few people told me that if the goal is mass, long cycles are a must.

Still, I’m tempted. Also, I agree with yourself that it’d be better to run shorter cycles with practically instant recovery, than to run longer and “more productive” cycles and spend longer recovering (and therefore potentially losing some gains).

So - I’d be willing to exchange my 4 weeker for 2 x 2 weekers, if anyone is interested in a log…?

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
…but I do have a decent amount of oral experimentation under my belt…

                   ToneBone

As the actress said to the bishop…

Hohoho.

Bushy[/quote]

LOL exactly what I thought. Such filthy minds.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
…but I do have a decent amount of oral experimentation under my belt…

                   ToneBone

As the actress said to the bishop…

Hohoho.

Bushy[/quote]

     Ahhh, haa,haa....I knew I was in for it after I wrote that one!!  Crackin up here! 

        What is Dave asking, if we want to read a log on his 2X2? Yes most certainly Dave. How on god's green earth is it you want to subject yourself to those ed or eod injecs though my man? One tough cookie you is mate.

              I'm working my tail off on something here in the two week vein too, sounds like we might have a go at the same time again, which could be interesting for comparisons sake again Dave.

            Good to see so much good info on your thread too Bushy! Keep getting your ducks in a row mate.

                  ToneBone

I wrote before about my experience with 3 X 2 weeks. I pretty much agree with Tone Bone. I was doing a cutting cycle and using var and strol. (Cy’s needle phobic cycle) I would recommend this approach (it worked for me) and would do it again if I can only find a missing feline:)
On the other hand they way things are these days…

Do you not do any PCT during these off-periods? That seems reasonable for such a short on-time. But what about at the end? I would think you’d certaingly want to do something, no?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Do you not do any PCT during these off-periods? That seems reasonable for such a short on-time. But what about at the end? I would think you’d certaingly want to do something, no?[/quote]

        No, that's the beauty of it JS. You don't need to provided you're not going past two weeks on, by Bill's explanation and word, though some like Dave and the other guy above your post, would say that even in 3 on two off, there isn't any necessity for it either. Of course you only want to do so many, say 3-4 max before taking a good month or two off completely. But in the interim between cycles, two weeks is what most of us do. I think Bill said two off in between a few back to back, and then at least 4 off completely before any additional cycles. 

Like I was saying it really does kick ass in my opinion. It’s like you continue gains into post cycle, and then you start again at a higher level next round, and then all the while you’re sort of conserving the amount of gear being used you see, so it’s just a win,win as far as I’m concerned.

       Just another thing that sort of goes against the grain, and some will be skeptical or hesitant to try it, but it works great. 

                  ToneBone

[quote]brunoG wrote:
I wrote before about my experience with 3 X 2 weeks. I pretty much agree with Tone Bone. I was doing a cutting cycle and using var and strol. (Cy’s needle phobic cycle) I would recommend this approach (it worked for me) and would do it again if I can only find a missing feline:)
On the other hand they way things are these days…
[/quote]

           Yeah too bad the kitty's gone away into the sunset isn't it? Hey btw Bruno, nice sounding cycle there, how were your gains bud? Can you tell us how the cycle went?

                 ToneBone

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Do you not do any PCT during these off-periods? That seems reasonable for such a short on-time. But what about at the end? I would think you’d certaingly want to do something, no?

        No, that's the beauty of it JS. You don't need to provided you're not going past two weeks on, by Bill's explanation and word, though some like Dave and the other guy above your post, would say that even in 3 on two off, there isn't any necessity for it either. Of course you only want to do so many, say 3-4 max before taking a good month or two off completely. But in the interim between cycles, two weeks is what most of us do. I think Bill said two off in between a few back to back, and then at least 4 off completely before any additional cycles. 

Like I was saying it really does kick ass in my opinion. It’s like you continue gains into post cycle, and then you start again at a higher level next round, and then all the while you’re sort of conserving the amount of gear being used you see, so it’s just a win,win as far as I’m concerned.

       Just another thing that sort of goes against the grain, and some will be skeptical or hesitant to try it, but it works great. 

                  ToneBone[/quote]

Wow. Very interesting!

I did two on two off X3 (50 Vin + 50 Var) No suppression as far as I can tell at all. Did nolva after first two weaker for four days but did not after the other two and felt no difference. If anything I felt my libido was up. I dropped about 15lbs of fat and gained a bit more muscle. I followed modified velocity diet for four weeks then relaxed it a bit but still ate clean. Got pretty shredded, six-pack etc.