T Nation

To Taper or Not to Taper


#1

I'm finishing up here, about 10-11 week cycle. Currently have masteron and test cyp left. My plan was to taper off from the max dosages, but a wrench has been thrown in there, because there is a possible testing date that could be 3 months out, so that puts me right at that threshold on not being clean. Now i was planning on tapering these two over this next month or so, but due to the potential testing, it has me a bit nervous about continuing use, so I've decided, sadly, that cold turkey is my only choice.

Anybody have any experience with stopping without tapering that they would be willing to tell me about?

-Thanks.

A


#2

Tapering seems like a massive waste of time. You are on or you aren’t.


#3

check out Singhbuilder’s thread where the taper saved his bacon.

I’m a big fan.


#4

[quote]Yogi wrote:
check out Singhbuilder’s thread where the taper saved his bacon.

I’m a big fan.[/quote]

I’ll take a look for sure. Always willing to expand the knowledge. I remember him having some serious issues so glad it helped him out.

Edit: So took a quick look at that thread and a lot going on in a very complicated situation. I am going to get deeper into it soon, but man, a 8 month cycle after a poor recovery is tough. I would say most people have no business doing 8 month cycles.


#5

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
check out Singhbuilder’s thread where the taper saved his bacon.

I’m a big fan.[/quote]

I’ll take a look for sure. Always willing to expand the knowledge. I remember him having some serious issues so glad it helped him out.

Edit: So took a quick look at that thread and a lot going on in a very complicated situation. I am going to get deeper into it soon, but man, a 8 month cycle after a poor recovery is tough. I would say most people have no business doing 8 month cycles.[/quote]

Have you ever tried the taper method? IMO if you have not, you have no business telling OP not to taper.

Mine was not an 8 month cycle. I was going to B&C but decided not to after 8 months of use and decided to come off.

SB


#6

[quote]ama7 wrote:
I’m finishing up here, about 10-11 week cycle. Currently have masteron and test cyp left. My plan was to taper off from the max dosages, but a wrench has been thrown in there, because there is a possible testing date that could be 3 months out, so that puts me right at that threshold on not being clean. Now i was planning on tapering these two over this next month or so, but due to the potential testing, it has me a bit nervous about continuing use, so I’ve decided, sadly, that cold turkey is my only choice.

Anybody have any experience with stopping without tapering that they would be willing to tell me about?

-Thanks.

A[/quote]

Have you used AAS before? If you have, you may already know how you react to the conventional PCT approach. For me, its PCT and tapering is like day and night. The difference is huge. But in all honesty if you want to appear clean then cold turkey is your best bet and just bite the bullet if you are fucked through a regular PCT.

SB


#7

Being on for 8 months and then coming off cannot be compared to running a normal 8-12 week cycle.

What is the benefit to tapering off a moderate testosterone dose after 8-12 weeks of use rather than just going straight into PCT?

In the ops example we are using Test C where the half life of the drug tapers anyway, so by tapering your dose down on top of this all you are doing is extending the cycle length by adding a lower, less effective dose.


#8

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
check out Singhbuilder’s thread where the taper saved his bacon.

I’m a big fan.[/quote]

I’ll take a look for sure. Always willing to expand the knowledge. I remember him having some serious issues so glad it helped him out.

Edit: So took a quick look at that thread and a lot going on in a very complicated situation. I am going to get deeper into it soon, but man, a 8 month cycle after a poor recovery is tough. I would say most people have no business doing 8 month cycles.[/quote]

Have you ever tried the taper method? IMO if you have not, you have no business telling OP not to taper.

Mine was not an 8 month cycle. I was going to B&C but decided not to after 8 months of use and decided to come off.

SB[/quote]

I haven’t tried the taper method, so fair point there. I am done having kids and cruising.

I am not trying to bash this method, but if your goal is the maximum amount of productive cycles in a year this would make less sense. Bill Roberts made this point when someone asked him about the taper in his Q&A thread, and it is a logical point. If you have PCT issues for whatever reason maybe the taper makes a lot of sense.


#9

[quote]ama7 wrote:
I’m finishing up here, about 10-11 week cycle. Currently have masteron and test cyp left. My plan was to taper off from the max dosages, but a wrench has been thrown in there, because there is a possible testing date that could be 3 months out, so that puts me right at that threshold on not being clean. Now i was planning on tapering these two over this next month or so, but due to the potential testing, it has me a bit nervous about continuing use, so I’ve decided, sadly, that cold turkey is my only choice.

Anybody have any experience with stopping without tapering that they would be willing to tell me about?

-Thanks.

A[/quote]

Sorry for getting derailed here, but my first test only cycle was something like 400mg/wk for 12 weeks (I think) and I didn’t PCT and it worked out ok. The next time I used Nolva and had much, much better results.

The guys that know about tapering are in this thread now so they will be the best to ask on how to proceed with that direction.


#10

[quote]pex86 wrote:
Being on for 8 months and then coming off cannot be compared to running a normal 8-12 week cycle.

What is the benefit to tapering off a moderate testosterone dose after 8-12 weeks of use rather than just going straight into PCT?

In the ops example we are using Test C where the half life of the drug tapers anyway, so by tapering your dose down on top of this all you are doing is extending the cycle length by adding a lower, less effective dose.

[/quote]

The benefit is a faster recovery for people LIKE ME. I did say that I prefer the taper over the conventional PCT for myself, I did not say the OP needs to taper off an 11-week cycle although that is what I would still do as it usually took me roughly the same amount (11+ weeks) to recover from a measly 10 week cycle. It depends on the individual, some recover fine without PCT meds, other (like myself and perhaps Yogi) just cannot go cold turkey and expect to be ok with it.

SB


#11

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I haven’t tried the taper method, so fair point there. I am done having kids and cruising.

I am not trying to bash this method, but if your goal is the maximum amount of productive cycles in a year this would make less sense. Bill Roberts made this point when someone asked him about the taper in his Q&A thread, and it is a logical point. If you have PCT issues for whatever reason maybe the taper makes a lot of sense. [/quote]

Fair point there also about the maximum amount of time spent ON within a year. I agree, cold turkey/PCT would allow one to squeeze in the max amount of cycles in a year provided one was completely recovered after the PCT (which in most cases, one is not unless pre/post bloodwork confirms).

In my case, a 10-week cycle and PCT would take me too long to recover from to be effective so if I was to ever use AAS I would have to B&C.

IMO cycling is not the way, its just too much strain on the body with hormone fluctuations and the amount of different drugs that need to be used.

B&C if your test is low or if you wish to go pro within your chosen sport. Leave AAS alone if its just to look good, IMO its not worth it.

SB


#12

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]pex86 wrote:
Being on for 8 months and then coming off cannot be compared to running a normal 8-12 week cycle.

What is the benefit to tapering off a moderate testosterone dose after 8-12 weeks of use rather than just going straight into PCT?

In the ops example we are using Test C where the half life of the drug tapers anyway, so by tapering your dose down on top of this all you are doing is extending the cycle length by adding a lower, less effective dose.

[/quote]

The benefit is a faster recovery for people LIKE ME. I did say that I prefer the taper over the conventional PCT for myself, I did not say the OP needs to taper off an 11-week cycle although that is what I would still do as it usually took me roughly the same amount (11+ weeks) to recover from a measly 10 week cycle. It depends on the individual, some recover fine without PCT meds, other (like myself and perhaps Yogi) just cannot go cold turkey and expect to be ok with it.

SB[/quote]

Sorry if i misunderstood the context of your comments to Kountkoma. You told him that he shouldn’t tell the OP not to taper as he has not tried the taper method.

I absolutely would advise the OP not to taper, even though i have not done it myself, for the reasons i mentioned above.

I think i might be missing something regarding the benefits of a taper in this scenario. You say that even from a cycle such as 12wks x 500mg of test cyp, for you, a taper would help with faster recovery. How does this work? What are the benefits from the taper? Are you able to stay on a low dose whilst restoring natural production?

I always thought that being on longer would result in making full recovery harder, even if the dose was low.


#13

[quote]pex86 wrote:
Sorry if i misunderstood the context of your comments to Kountkoma. You told him that he shouldn’t tell the OP not to taper as he has not tried the taper method.

I absolutely would advise the OP not to taper, even though i have not done it myself, for the reasons i mentioned above.

I think i might be missing something regarding the benefits of a taper in this scenario. You say that even from a cycle such as 12wks x 500mg of test cyp, for you, a taper would help with faster recovery. How does this work? What are the benefits from the taper? Are you able to stay on a low dose whilst restoring natural production?

I always thought that being on longer would result in making full recovery harder, even if the dose was low.
[/quote]

There was a limit of AAS use where suppression would cease. I cannot give you an exact figure however. The thing about the taper is that as far as I know it is not backed by science but it just outright works.

It would give me a faster recovery personally as the conventional PCT leaves me with subpar sex hormone levels for months after it has finished and the waiting game for my own endocrine to pick up the slack just wasn’t the best way to do it. I’d rather the extra few weeks of suppression by tapering off than the months of low test post PCT.

SB


#14

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
I haven’t tried the taper method, so fair point there. I am done having kids and cruising.

I am not trying to bash this method, but if your goal is the maximum amount of productive cycles in a year this would make less sense. Bill Roberts made this point when someone asked him about the taper in his Q&A thread, and it is a logical point. If you have PCT issues for whatever reason maybe the taper makes a lot of sense. [/quote]

Fair point there also about the maximum amount of time spent ON within a year. I agree, cold turkey/PCT would allow one to squeeze in the max amount of cycles in a year provided one was completely recovered after the PCT (which in most cases, one is not unless pre/post bloodwork confirms).

In my case, a 10-week cycle and PCT would take me too long to recover from to be effective so if I was to ever use AAS I would have to B&C.

IMO cycling is not the way, its just too much strain on the body with hormone fluctuations and the amount of different drugs that need to be used.

B&C if your test is low or if you wish to go pro within your chosen sport. Leave AAS alone if its just to look good, IMO its not worth it.

SB[/quote]

I agree 100% with this post. While I am sure I could have done it better, even PCT was not good for me. My job is super physical and the PCT was just rough. I never did bloodwork before starting AAS, but based on how great I feel on a cruise dose I have to believe I was on the lower end of T.


#15

the extra time spent on cycle with the taper is a valid question.

I’m actually trying a 6 week cycle, with a 3 week taper. Frontloaded the shit out of the test, 50mg dbol for the first 4 weeks, 2 weeks on 1g test then a 3 week taper into PCT (5 weeks of clomid and low dose aromasin).

Only 9 total weeks using exogenous hormones. Should recover just fine and what with the taper + the use of hcg throughout, I’m going for like 98% gains retention baby! Up 18lbs in 4 weeks so should be pretty sexytime by the time I’m done.


#16

The idea of tapering lends itself to longer cycles. I would just go with straight PCT for a cycle the length of the OP’s. I haven’t used a straight taper, more of a trt dose with hcg, an AI, and clomid on the back end of the trt period, then a shot of triptorelin and continue clomid while dropping out the trt dosage over about 2 weeks. Has worked well, and I generally am B&C, but come off once in a while.


#17

[quote]Yogi wrote:
the extra time spent on cycle with the taper is a valid question.

I’m actually trying a 6 week cycle, with a 3 week taper. Frontloaded the shit out of the test, 50mg dbol for the first 4 weeks, 2 weeks on 1g test then a 3 week taper into PCT (5 weeks of clomid and low dose aromasin).

Only 9 total weeks using exogenous hormones. Should recover just fine and what with the taper + the use of hcg throughout, I’m going for like 98% gains retention baby! Up 18lbs in 4 weeks so should be pretty sexytime by the time I’m done.[/quote]

You have my attention. Gains retention and recovery log please? Maybe with bloods? Thanks I look forward to it :stuck_out_tongue:

SB