Ok, I’m back (and tired as hell due to delays in Tampa and Atlanta, but anyhow). Here is the protocol that I recommend for you. Drop the carbs to under 40 daily and replace those calories with protein. Refeed on carbs (try once every 5 days to start, then depending on how it is working out, adjust the frequency) in this fashion:
1. It should last ~7-8 hours.
2. It's caloric value should be 1-1.5 times your maintenance calorie intake. For example, if maintenance is 3000, then the value should be 3000-4500 calories. Start at the low end of the range at first.
3. The macro breakdown should be 70% carbs, 20% protein, and whatever fat you cannot avoid.
4. Foods like potatoes, pasta, oats, bagels, low-fat pop tarts or grahm crackers, pretzels, non-fat ice cream, or basically anything else w/ little fat and fructose, esp. in the form of HFCSyrup (read the labels).
This should work much nicer than an all out cheat because 1) glyogen is depleted and 2) the fat content of the refeed is minimal.
Thanks, Joel. I’m printing this thread as soon as I reply because of all the good advice I’ve gotten. I needed the particulars you gave me, so thanks for being so precise. I know there will be other plateaus I hit, at which point I’ll be able to pull out my notes and make the necessary changes.
Just an update, there are a few subtle changes I’ve made to my diet in the last three days. I’ve cut my carbs from 100g/day to about 75g/day, give or take, and increased protein to compensate. I cut out the dairy and fruit. I actually got in a couple of extra “educational” type workouts with someone in town who was showing me some Westside Barbell powerlifting principles (I had asked for help on my squatting and deadlifting form). As a result of the changes, I’ve broken my plateau and am down 1.5 pounds in 3 days. And with my lower daily carb intake, I’m going to add in carb refeeds with the numbers you’ve given me.
I’m keeping with my original plan, Meltdown through the end of the month, switching to RR&D the first of December. Will keep my current macronutrient ratios until I hit another plateau, at which point I’ll do as you recommend and drop carbs a bit lower.
Thanks to all who responded. I couldn’t have done it without you!!!
Renegade Chef to Tampa Terry (2002-11-11 19:18:10 1953954908)
Since your maintenance kcal came out to 1962kc lets say 2000kcal. Base your diet off of this number as your total daily kcaloric intake. This will give you more energy and the macro/micro nutrients your body requires to maintain itself especially with the added demands of training. Assuming your doing your workouts with average to above average intensity with a total time length of 60-90 minutes a day, youre going to burn the 500+kcal per day from exercise alone, so don’t try and do speed things up by creating the additional kcal deficit from your diet, for now rely on the expended kcals. Also for various reasons, I’m not a big fan of the extreme low carb diets. So increase your carbs to 45-50% of your total kcaloric intake with protein being 30% and fats the other 20%. For carbs stay away from the high glycemic carbs and processed carbs. Stick with fresh green veggies, oatmeal, yams, moderate amounts of fruits for their micronutrient contents, and any other lower glycemic carb that you prefer. The exception is first am meal and post-workout meal where you want high glycemic carbs to raise blood glucose levels and insulin levels to help replenish depleted glycogen stores.
ko (2002-11-11 19:57:17 1953954913)
There are lots of "rules" in this game. That being said, they do not apply to everybody. For instance I stay around 8-9% with no cardio, and a high amount of carbs. In other words you need to tweak it to fit you. Try going maintenance cals (or gradually ease up to it) and see what happens. If that does not work, try dropping some cardio(or add some). You have to play around to find what works for you.
The problem is that Meltdown workouts are only about a half hour (4 exercises, 3 sets) four days a week. In addition I’m doing cardio four times a week, 30 minutes. Other than that I lead a pretty sedentary life. I’m not sure that my workouts would provide me with the 500-calorie-per-day deficit I need to lose 1 pound a week.
Re the carbs, I’ve done low-carb diets before, right around 20-30g per day for long periods of time. And I’d agree with you – my energy sucked! When I switched to JB’s Don’t Diet diet and upped my carbs to 100g, my energy level was off the charts. It’s actually a good number for me. I’m going to play with the 75g/day number for a while, along with the carb refeeds. BTW, I’m with you all the way on the high glycemic carbs and processed carbs. I don’t do any of either.
Good advice, though, and I gave it some serious consideration. I’ll probably play around with upping my calories towards maintenance if/when I hit another plateau. See, like Ko said, the rules don’t work for everyone, and you have to experiment.
To Ko:
You are truly the voice of reason and logic regarding the rules of the game. I’ve always believed that each of us are biochemically (and metabolically) unique. What works for one doesn’t always for another. You and Renegade Chef both recommended experimenting with bringing my caloric intake up closer to maintenance calories. Since I seem to be halfway back on track (crossing fingers & knocking on wood) I’m going to experiment first with the carb refeeds. At my next plateau, I’ll probably give that a go.
Cool. Always be ready to shift gears. Joel has helped me tons, so his advice is definitely worth following, and Renegade chef know his stuff also. But in the end, learn to listen to what your body is telling you, and find your own path.
Don’t let the short duration of Meltdown think that your caloric expenditure is low. Meltdown is similar to HIIT cardio in the fact that you burn tons of calories after the session due to an upregulation of metabolism…it’s probably more productive than a workout of 3 times the length but moderate in intensity.
If you really want to start dropping pounds try this, do 5 circuit sets instead of 3 and drop the time inbewteen set to about 30 seconds (or less). I had the same problem as you the first time i tried meltdown, but after i added the two sets and reduced the rest peroid i got immediate results. Also i usally run 2 miles after a meltdown session and do another workout in the PM.
Okay, Joel, I promise not to doubt either you or Meltdown ever again. I’m back on track, making progress, lost another half pound; 2 pounds since Saturday. Totally woos’d out in the gym earlier, so I’ve started my carb refeed.
Charlie, what’s this 'bout FIVE circuits?!? Egads, you’re a better man than me. LOL! Five circuits and they’d have to carry me out of the gym.
Actually, I was able to get in 4 circuits for the first time last night. I’ll keep on adding weight and sets/circuits.
Actually, Meltdown is awesome. I’m seeing that line down the center of my chest (the sternum?) for the first time EVER. And my shoulders, back and arms are getting some real shape and definition. Heck, one day I may even be able to post my pics.
Well it’s nice to see someone else is making progress on Meltdown…for a while I thought I was the only one who it was working for.
To the person who is doing five circuits w. 30 sec. rest, you are hard-freaking core! I think a lot of the reason that many have claimed subpar results with this program is that most people, unless they have a good partner or trainer, will not push themselves hard enough on this program. I know there’s been a couple of times where I probably quit earlier than I should have. This is unquestionably the hardest program I have ever done, especially when the cardio intervals are added in. I’ve never puked during the workout, but I get that really nauseous feeling a few minutes after I’m done.
Monty, I’m curious, do you eat before you work out? I’ve never had the “want to throw up” feeling. But I work out 2 to 3 hours after a meal, making my post-workout drink a “meal” of sorts. And I follow JB’s recommendations, sipping half between circuits and the other half upon completion of the workout. I’d sure hate to do Meltdown on even a semi-full stomach.
I never eat right before a workout. On a normal day, it’s 2 hrs. before hitting the gym. During the workout, I am consuming 25 g. of Davies’ BCAA/Glutamine powder, and I make sure I drink at least 24-32 oz. of water. While I don’t use throwing up as a measure for a good workout, if this workout is done properly you should feel a little nauseous.
Just my .02: I had the same problem 2 months ago. I weighed in at 230lbs 20% bf. My bf wouldnt go down. I had just started doing 8-12 rep workouts, 1 body part per workout, 5 times per week,with 20 minutes of cardio immediately afterwards. However this is what I did since i hadnt seen big results, and two months later im at 12% bf, 201lbs. First, Im on the t-dawg diet. I have no carbs except immediately after my workout, when i have 35 grams of simple high glycemic carbs. I have no carbs before my workout and take in fat for energy instead. My workouts are all in the 8-12 rep range but here's my twist (and this is awesome if u want to shed fat). on my chest day i have 3 supersets of flat chest bb press and incline bb press. Then 3 more supersets of cable flies with pushups. In between each of the 6 supersets i do 2 minutes of high intensity cardio. This way ur workouts will be shorter, ur hear rate will stay higher, and ull avoid sending ur cortisol levels skyhigh immediately after a workout by doing 20 mins of cardio when u body needs some protein and carbs the most. Besdes, lactic acid in ur body should be much higher, which will translate into higher growth hormone levels, and lower cortisol levels. Not to mention ur heart rate will stay elevated long ater ur done with ur workout, wih will burn more calories. I always have a post workout shake because it incrases ur metabolism, and this is important because ur metabolism will be slower after a workout (right JB?). Ive tried shedding fat before, but this is the only time ive actully been able to do it, and ive ben shedding 1-1.5% bf since i started it 4 weeks ago. just as a comparison, id been on the tdawg diet as well before this, and my bf had gone from 19% 230 lbs to 17.2% 206 lbs. after my first week doing this though, my bf was 15.7%. A week later, I was 14.6%. The next week I was down to 13.4%. This past week I measured at 11.8 % and I weighed 199 lbs. Not bad if u consider I lot 7 lbs with a drop of over 5 % bf, ad in just 4 weeks withno supplements except a good diet and this workout routine.
Monty, I’ve taken glutamine before, and it doesn’t sit well on my stomach if I take it by itself. Nonetheless, I think your real point is that for Meltdown to be of real benefit, the level of intensity needs to be “up there.” I’m with you. Even got in my second 4-circuit workout.