I just realized the post was for defense against multiple opponents, in which case, good luck!
Funny thread.
It needs some video. Here’s a demonstration of two very nice opening moves in a single incident.
http://psfights.com/details.php?image_id=592
Although you could say he fought ‘multiples’, it really is a combination of two singles in a row.
[The link is showing up oddly in the preview, and I don’t know how to attach video. If the link fails type in:
http://psfights.com, and then
/details.php?image_id=592
When I type them combined, it changes the characters after ‘details’ It’s all a single link.
It’s worth viewing.]
[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
I was talking with a couple of people yesterday and the topic of fights came up. We were talking about what would be the ultimate punch if you were fighting a bigger guy, [/quote]
The best punch is the punch that lands.
During one of the UFCs, Rickson Gracie was asked: “What’s the best defense against multiple attackers?” In all seriousness, he answered: “Sig Sauer P226.”
Now go back to your buddies and start talking about what you’d do if you ever met Jenna Jameson. LMAO.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
This depends on what range you are fighting from. If at kicking range - snap kick to the balls. If at punching range - straight right to the chin. If at horizontal grappling (stand up) range - knee to groin or elbow to jaw. If grappling on ground - eye gouges and/or biting. Quickly follow up if the first shot doesn’t work. Then sand blast his ass getting out of there the first chance you get.[/quote]
LMAO. You can always spot the guys who have never actually been in a fight. Dude, biting doesn’t work that well. Plus, you can get AIDS that way.
Most guys would put the guy in a choke, or just pound him from the mounted position. Or if he has hair, grab his head and pound it into the concrete a few times.
Good try, though.
[quote]Rah-Knee wrote:
the king of all punches, the one that produces knock-outs faster than any other, the one that shatters jaws, the one that an inexperienced fighter has zero chance of blocking or avoiding : the strong hand uppercut.[/quote]
Umm… No! The “king of all punches” is the one that fucking lands.
Man, you guys act like hitting someone in the face is like punching a stationary bag or breaking a board at karate class. LMAO.
Unreal that so many obviously unqualified people nonetheless feel qualified to give advice about subjects they know nothing about. Pathethic, actually.
[quote]supermonkey wrote:
Man, these kind of threads are always hilarious.
BTW. The RNC doesn’t attack the throat. It attacks the carotid arteries.
People need to watch less martial arts movies.
Throat death punch… Hilarious.[/quote]
Do tell why the idea that punching someone in the throat being deadly is a laughable idea?
I must be a really stupid mother fuccker who has absolutely no idea of biology or you completely have your head up your ass.
The throat is how you get air into the lungs. In the air we breath is an element called oxygen. Oxygen is an essential ingredient for life. You can not live with out air. While it is not an absolutely guaranteed killing technique neither is shooting someone with a gun.
But you say this is a laughable idea implying that it has absolutely no potential for death. So do tell how it is possible to live without air. What are you going to do suck it in your ass?
[quote]Sonny S wrote:
I’ve only been in 2 fights, the benefits of being large at a young age I guess.
But fwiw, at a Bas Rutten seminar, I asked him if you can’t get out of a fight with someone, what should you do when they attack you first. This is assuming a bar fight of some type where you’re not going up against a trained opponent.
Like the other poster said, he said to react. When they throw the first punch, his favorite move was to put your head down and purposely intercept their punch with the top of your skull, which is much harder than the bones in your hand and wrist and can easily break.
He continued by saying its never expected, it will hurt them quite a bit, and then you can counter-strike from a distance, bull-rush them and go for headbutt, hook, nuts, whatever, or run away.
( Or, for those of you who have his tapes, you can hit them with a leeeeever shot!)
Scrappy wrote:
supermonkey wrote:
Man, these kind of threads are always hilarious.
BTW. The RNC doesn’t attack the throat. It attacks the carotid arteries.
People need to watch less martial arts movies.
Throat death punch… Hilarious.
Thank you!
[/quote]
Blocking blows with your head has got to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. Someone posted a video of Bas Rutten up here a while back. I wouldn’t pay to learn from him, because I’ve seen him do things that I was taught not to do when I was a white belt.
Personally, I’ve only been in a fight with multiple people once. There were six of them in a semicircle around me with my back to the wall. The leader was talking to me and before he could throw the first punch, I swung for his chin as hard as I could. I connected and his legs gave out under him. Before anyone could react, I ran like hell. I got away too.
IMO, this is the only way to “win” in a fight with multiple attackers.
RJ
You can die from getting hit by a bus dropped from the top of a building but it is so statistically improbable that it isn’t worth investing any time into.
While there are very well documented (videod) occurances of people being punched in the jaw and knocked unconscious I would love to see some evidence of punches to the throat producing throat collapsing asphyxiation.
The rather improbable idea that you are going to be able to hit someone in the throat AND with enough force in order to collapse the trachea is somewhat of a stupid thing to rely on.
How do you train to collapse someone’s throat? You can train to punch someone in the face and you can indeed punch someone in the face and see that these things work.
I don’t know too many people that are going to volunteer to be punched in the throat to see if it will collapse their trachea and to perfect this strike.
Here is a video of Genki Sudo shilling Juko Kai and a stupid throat punch. - YouTube Silly parlor tricks.
Bunch more of Juko Kai CRAP there.
Sure a throat strike could end a fight but how likely is it to land and how can you train that? You can’t really cherry pick strikes against someone who is moving.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Do tell why the idea that punching someone in the throat being deadly is a laughable idea?
I must be a really stupid mother fuccker who has absolutely no idea of biology or you completely have your head up your ass.
The throat is how you get air into the lungs. In the air we breath is an element called oxygen. Oxygen is an essential ingredient for life. You can not live with out air. While it is not an absolutely guaranteed killing technique neither is shooting someone with a gun.
But you say this is a laughable idea implying that it has absolutely no potential for death. So do tell how it is possible to live without air. What are you going to do suck it in your ass? [/quote]
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
This depends on what range you are fighting from. If at kicking range - snap kick to the balls. If at punching range - straight right to the chin. If at horizontal grappling (stand up) range - knee to groin or elbow to jaw. If grappling on ground - eye gouges and/or biting. Quickly follow up if the first shot doesn’t work. Then sand blast his ass getting out of there the first chance you get.
LMAO. You can always spot the guys who have never actually been in a fight. Dude, biting doesn’t work that well. Plus, you can get AIDS that way.
Most guys would put the guy in a choke, or just pound him from the mounted position. Or if he has hair, grab his head and pound it into the concrete a few times.
Good try, though.[/quote]
So, you can tell from my post that I’ve never been in a fight, huh? How perceptive. FYI, I’ve trained in the martial arts since 1981 and kickboxed for 5 years. I have trained with grapplers, cops, boxers, bouncers, blackbelts of various styles and even an ex-convict. I have taught self defense on and off since the late eighties and have had plenty of people come and try to kick my ass in front of my students.
I’ve had my share of scraps on the street and I know for fact that things like kicks to the knee, hitting and moving, biting and/or a strong right to the jaw will work. But I don’t feel the need to prove anything to or receive validation from some internet badass. It’s clear that you believe all you have to do is ground and pound, never minding the fact that the guy probably has one or two buddies more than willing to stomp your ass while you’re busy putting him in an arm bar.
Or that he might use his 4 inch lockblade to ensure that you wear a colostomy bag for the rest of your life while you’re attempting a triangle choke. You should add something of value to the thread and quit watching so much tv.
Sonny you are a good example of what I see a lot of on this board. Armchair martial artists who think they know more than people who have actually been in a dojo for years training and teaching. That is why when you said throat punches don’t work I figured you were going to bring up that exact video that you gave the link to. I would like to know who the first guy who got kicked in the groin was. Because he looks a lot like a former student of mine.
Those guys have actually been written up in black belt about 10 years ago. So I am quite familiar with what they are doing. Those guys are hard core Sanchin fanatics. I first learned Sanchin 31 years ago so I know a thing or two about Sanchin. Those guys spend a lot of time doing Sanchin while beating on each other and breaking 2x4’s across various body parts.
To practice how to take kicks to the groin they start out with a paddle in one hand and isolate their testicles in the end of their scrotum and smack away for 15 minutes for beginners and work up from there. You can also shove your testes up into your abdomin. To each thier own. I have allowed a big tittted lesbian in a leather bustier use me to practice using a flogger, which actually felt kind of good. But what those guys are doing is just weird.
There is no parlor trick to the throat shots just Pascals law and Sanchin. I have been punched in the side of the throat really hard bare knuckles by a fellow black belt while free fighting. I can tell you it’s a whole lot different in an actual fighting situation than if you know it’s coming and can lock up in Sanchin.
Bottom line is the vast majority of people walking around have not spent years practicing Sanchin or Iron shirt and are not going to know how to deal with it. As I said I’ve been doing Sanchin for 31 years and I wouldn’t take it to the extreme those guys have because I know the consequences.
You need to stop learning from webpages and find a real teacher. Because whoever you are getting your information from is just wrong. I can guarantee you that I hit what I am aiming at when I fight it’s just a matter of skill. I have landed plenty of clean hard shots on trained martial artists who were tyring to thump me hard. However the best blow I ever landed on a human being was in a real fight on a stupid mother fucker who thought he could mount me right after three of his freinds had tackled me off of him and put me on the floor.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
It’s clear that you believe all you have to do is ground and pound, never minding the fact that the guy probably has one or two buddies more than willing to stomp your ass while you’re busy putting him in an arm bar. [/quote]
Arm bar? When did I say to use an arm bar? Of course, if you can quickly land an arm bar and breack the guy’s arm (it’s the street, so there’d be no tap outs), then how would that NOT be effective?
Anyhow, if the guy has buddies with him and you don’t, why are you fighting?
Let’s try something: Have someone mount you and then start punching and elbowing the hell out of you. Meanwhile, reach into your pocket and grab that knife. Or grab the knife while someone has you in a rear-naked choke. Try both.
You would not remain conscious long enough to grab anything. (Also, if you’re mounted, how are you going to grab something from your pocket, punches notwithstanding. Do you know what the mounted position is?) And that’s assuming you could resist the instinctual impulse to block your face for the “higher level” thought to grab your knife.
You “theory” of what happens on the street betrays your attempts at seeming knowledageble.
LOL. Nice try, “Tornado.” I’m sure you can do a lot of pretty flutter and cresant kicks. Can you break 4 boards with a side kick?
I’m sure you’re very good at your martial art. But it’s obvious you’re not (and never were) a fighter. No biggier. There’s nothing glamorous about street fighting.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
It’s clear that you believe all you have to do is ground and pound, never minding the fact that the guy probably has one or two buddies more than willing to stomp your ass while you’re busy putting him in an arm bar.
Arm bar? When did I say to use an arm bar? Of course, if you can quickly land an arm bar and breack the guy’s arm (it’s the street, so there’d be no tap outs), then how would that NOT be effective?
Anyhow, if the guy has buddies with him and you don’t, why are you fighting?
Or that he might use his 4 inch lockblade to ensure that you wear a colostomy bag for the rest of your life while you’re attempting a triangle choke.
Let’s try something: Have someone mount you and then start punching and elbowing the hell out of you. Meanwhile, reach into your pocket and grab that knife. Or grab the knife while someone has you in a rear-naked choke. Try both.
You would not remain conscious long enough to grab anything. (Also, if you’re mounted, how are you going to grab something from your pocket, punches notwithstanding. Do you know what the mounted position is?) And that’s assuming you could resist the instinctual impulse to block your face for the “higher level” thought to grab your knife.
You “theory” of what happens on the street betrays your attempts at seeming knowledageble.
You should add something of value to the thread and quit watching so much tv.
LOL. Nice try, “Tornado.” I’m sure you can do a lot of pretty flutter and cresant kicks. Can you break 4 boards with a side kick?
I’m sure you’re very good at your martial art. But it’s obvious you’re not (and never were) a fighter. No biggier. There’s nothing glamorous about street fighting. [/quote]
Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it doesn’t have merit. Judging from your posts, you obviously feel that you are THE AUTHORITY on every subject and how dare anyone offer another view. Then when someone calls you on it, you take offense.
If someone intends to cut you do you think they are going to wait until they are on the ground to pull a knife? Since you are such an “expert” on close quarters combat, surely you would know that it would be hidden from view until the last second. But wait, you didn’t think of that possibility, therefore it’s unproven theory.
Ok, tough guy, impress us all. Tell us how many months you’ve been training, how many guys you’ve choked out in an actual street altercation, how many times you’ve been mounted and why we should all line up and kiss your ass. You’re a legend in your own mind.
I didn’t say throat punches don’t work 
Oh, I know those videos are dumb as hell.
Also the only thing is that you don’t produce any solid evidence. All you do is say this happened this happened that happened and talk about all this and that that you did. Please to provide some sort of verifiable evidence of collapsing of tracheas from punches which would show that crushing someone’s trachea in a fight would be at all likely and or useful.
You can go on talking about things that aren’t verifiable evidence of you want though.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Sonny you are a good example of what I see a lot of on this board. Armchair martial artists who think they know more than people who have actually been in a dojo for years training and teaching. That is why when you said throat punches don’t work I figured you were going to bring up that exact video that you gave the link to. I would like to know who the first guy who got kicked in the groin was. Because he looks a lot like a former student of mine.
[/quote]
Hi guys,
First, I’d like to say that I don’t really believe in any one “best” strike in a real fight. There are just too many variables to consider to make such a distinction.
I think targets would probably be a better choice, and even then, it really depends. But, here are some of the better ones in my opinion:
-
eyes. Even if you don’t really land the strike perfectly, even grazing the eyeball can cause the eye to water up, cause discomfort, or at the very least cause the opponent to blink. This should give you time to flee the scene (if possible), or continue the assault if necessary.
-
Neck. Seriously, does anybody here really think that if someone who knows how to punch punches you hard in the windpipe, that you will not be in a serious world of hurt? The trachea is comprised of cartilage, the knuckles are comprised of bone, this alone will mean that the knuckles win that fight every time. Might it kill them? Maybe, maybe not, really depends on now squarely the strike lands. But it’ll definetely slow them down.
Also, there are more targets on the neck than just the windpipe. You can also strike the sides of the neck (carotid artery/sinus), which can cause a knockout just as easily as a strike to the jaw. Strikes to the cervical spine and the occipital region of the skull don’t feel particularly good either.
-
Jaw. More boxers are KO’d by strikes to the jaw than any other target. Hitting the jaw right can cause the head whip which causes a knockout.
-
Groin/bladder area. Sure, there are guys who can take shots to that area, but heck that’s true of all the other targets (perhaps with the exception of the eyes). It still doesn’t mean that it’s not a worthwhile target. It will have a pretty dramatic effect on 99% of people, and will at least slow down their pursuit if you choose to run. Getting hit in the bladder is also not fun, and can be very dibilitating.
-
Body. This could include the liver, heart, solar plexus, kidneys all of which are good targets. Liver shots can cause a body knock out, heart shots can be potentially lethal, and solar plexus and kidney shots just suck.
I realize there are other potential targets besides these, and I’m not trying to suggest that they won’t work. I really believe that one shouldn’t limit themselves to any certain target(s) in a fight, but should just attack what is available.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Sonny you are really typical of the know nothing martial arts know it alls on this board.
You are so convinced you know it all that you don’t even take the time to do a google search for “crushed trachea” just to see if you could be wrong. Google gives 61,500 hits for crushed trachea a good number of which are for medical journals.
I’m not going to waste my time picking through google searches and pasting links for your punkass. So here is one from the first page of hits. http://www.indegene.com/ijcd/JanMar2001/indIJCDJanMar2001Laryngotracheal.html
“Laryngotracheal injuries are relatively rare following blunt trauma to the neck and chest but results in a high degree of morbidity and mortality”.
As I said it’s not a %100 guaranteed kill. I’ve survived such a blow so I know that. I do know that it is not something to do to someone who I am not completely willing to see dead. Just like I wouldn’t poke someone in the eye real hard if I was willing to damage or destroy their eye. Just like I wouldn’t kick someone in the knee if I was willing to cripple them.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Hi guys,
First, I’d like to say that I don’t really believe in any one “best” strike in a real fight. There are just too many variables to consider to make such a distinction.
I think targets would probably be a better choice, and even then, it really depends. But, here are some of the better ones in my opinion:
-
eyes. Even if you don’t really land the strike perfectly, even grazing the eyeball can cause the eye to water up, cause discomfort, or at the very least cause the opponent to blink. This should give you time to flee the scene (if possible), or continue the assault if necessary.
-
Neck. Seriously, does anybody here really think that if someone who knows how to punch punches you hard in the windpipe, that you will not be in a serious world of hurt? The trachea is comprised of cartilage, the knuckles are comprised of bone, this alone will mean that the knuckles win that fight every time. Might it kill them? Maybe, maybe not, really depends on now squarely the strike lands. But it’ll definetely slow them down.
Also, there are more targets on the neck than just the windpipe. You can also strike the sides of the neck (carotid artery/sinus), which can cause a knockout just as easily as a strike to the jaw. Strikes to the cervical spine and the occipital region of the skull don’t feel particularly good either.
-
Jaw. More boxers are KO’d by strikes to the jaw than any other target. Hitting the jaw right can cause the head whip which causes a knockout.
-
Groin/bladder area. Sure, there are guys who can take shots to that area, but heck that’s true of all the other targets (perhaps with the exception of the eyes). It still doesn’t mean that it’s not a worthwhile target. It will have a pretty dramatic effect on 99% of people, and will at least slow down their pursuit if you choose to run. Getting hit in the bladder is also not fun, and can be very dibilitating.
-
Body. This could include the liver, heart, solar plexus, kidneys all of which are good targets. Liver shots can cause a body knock out, heart shots can be potentially lethal, and solar plexus and kidney shots just suck.
I realize there are other potential targets besides these, and I’m not trying to suggest that they won’t work. I really believe that one shouldn’t limit themselves to any certain target(s) in a fight, but should just attack what is available.
Good training,
Sentoguy[/quote]
Excellent post.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Arm bar? When did I say to use an arm bar? Of course, if you can quickly land an arm bar and breack the guy’s arm (it’s the street, so there’d be no tap outs), then how would that NOT be effective?
[/quote]
Quickly landing an arm bar is not a possibility in a street fight against multiple attackers. The second you take anything to the ground you will get your head kicked in.
You either stand and strike and wait for other people to break things up or run away.
The best idea in my opinion is to not go looking for trouble on your own (or at all).
p.s. an arm bar does not break the arm it dislocates the shoulder as do almost all arm submissions; kimura, americana, omoplata etc.
Hmmm…I think you meant SuperMonkey or climber?
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Sonny you are a good example of what I see a lot of on this board. Armchair martial artists who think they know more than people who have actually been in a dojo for years training and teaching. That is why when you said throat punches don’t work I figured you were going to bring up that exact video that you gave the link to. I would like to know who the first guy who got kicked in the groin was. Because he looks a lot like a former student of mine.
Those guys have actually been written up in black belt about 10 years ago. So I am quite familiar with what they are doing. Those guys are hard core Sanchin fanatics. I first learned Sanchin 31 years ago so I know a thing or two about Sanchin. Those guys spend a lot of time doing Sanchin while beating on each other and breaking 2x4’s across various body parts.
To practice how to take kicks to the groin they start out with a paddle in one hand and isolate their testicles in the end of their scrotum and smack away for 15 minutes for beginners and work up from there. You can also shove your testes up into your abdomin. To each thier own. I have allowed a big tittted lesbian in a leather bustier use me to practice using a flogger, which actually felt kind of good. But what those guys are doing is just weird.
There is no parlor trick to the throat shots just Pascals law and Sanchin. I have been punched in the side of the throat really hard bare knuckles by a fellow black belt while free fighting. I can tell you it’s a whole lot different in an actual fighting situation than if you know it’s coming and can lock up in Sanchin.
Bottom line is the vast majority of people walking around have not spent years practicing Sanchin or Iron shirt and are not going to know how to deal with it. As I said I’ve been doing Sanchin for 31 years and I wouldn’t take it to the extreme those guys have because I know the consequences.
You need to stop learning from webpages and find a real teacher. Because whoever you are getting your information from is just wrong. I can guarantee you that I hit what I am aiming at when I fight it’s just a matter of skill. I have landed plenty of clean hard shots on trained martial artists who were tyring to thump me hard. However the best blow I ever landed on a human being was in a real fight on a stupid mother fucker who thought he could mount me right after three of his freinds had tackled me off of him and put me on the floor.
[/quote]
Sifu,
I do see parallels betw taking street fight advice from an undefeated UFC fighter and workout advice from a roided-up genetic freak …
probably not the best people to learn from.
I will mention that Bas Rutten is a highly-respected teacher in the MMA community and sought by many for his teaching.
Of course, it could all be due to his popularity and not to his effectiveness, in which case caveat emptor
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Blocking blows with your head has got to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. Someone posted a video of Bas Rutten up here a while back. I wouldn’t pay to learn from him, because I’ve seen him do things that I was taught not to do when I was a white belt. [/quote]