To Bush supporters

Maybe this will open up the mind of pro-Bush supporters:

THere is a theory about all aspects of life, that basically says: in life, no matter what your goal, shoot for the top of the pyramid. There is less competition up there, the rewards are much greater and for some reason, the risks are less.

Relating to crime, it makes sense:

you can sell crack or steal cars- not good. Little reward for huge risk.

You can rob banks or jewelry stores-better money but still high risk.

You can become a drug distributor- even better money, but still high risk.

You can commit insurance and CC fraud, even better. Good money, less risk, and its a white collar crime.

You can own a company and steal tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars from the company, or not pay taxes on your profits- even better because the money is great and its still just white collar crime.

You can become CEO, CFO or VP of a large corporation, get millions of dollars by defrauding investors, insider trading, OR do a horrible job but still get a golden parachute, etc.
FANTASTIC money and little risk, maybe a country club jail.


You can conspire and succeed in stealing the election of the most powerful nation on earth, an election that you DID not win, and you can use your position of power to enrich yourself, indirectly, by assigning massive, billion dollar contracts to your friends and business partners.

THe reward? You go down in history as a “president” of the United States and make, directly or indirectly, fabulous wealth for yourself and your friends.

THe risk? None. Because no one, other than reporters, is investigating what really happened in FLorida. Most people don’t care.
There have been some complaints re: Halliburton, but nowhere even CLOSE to the investigation, led by the US Senate, on whether CLinton got a BJ and whether he made some money on a land deal in Arkansas.

And if you are found guilty after leaving office, you will get a presidential pardon.

You can avoid serving in Vietnam thanks to your dad’s power, and yet accuse your opponent for the next election for portesting it when he got back home, AFTER HE WAS WOUNDED NOT ONCE…BUT TWICE.

Bizarro world.

Vote for Bush if you must, but realize that unless you are…nah, forget it. You’ll do what you want to do.


Do you click your heels together three times every day and say, “There is no one like Gore?”

Seriously, Sonny, aren’t you embarrassed by that last post?

If George W. Bush “stole” the election from Gore, why isn’t Gore running this time? Why is he ducking the rematch?
I’ll tell you why, because he would have been utterly humiliated.

For everyone else, please see my response to Sonny, under War, Time, and Human Cost.

You Dems really, really need to get over the bitterness. Not that your argument holds an ounce of water. But remember, the elections are fought and won over the people in the middle. And they don’t like the sniping, just a fact.

If you continue with the track you’re on, you sabbotage yourself. Oh yeah, and thank you!

I dislike Bush, but not nearly as much as this dumb post.

Absolutely one of the most ridiculous posts I’ve read
here------- and that’s really saying something. However,
if it was meant to be humorous, good job.

Why don’t morons realize the popular vote is pretty much meaningless? The electoral votes are called that because that is what they are for. The popular vote is there for a tiebreaker; in case each candidate receives the same amount of electoral votes the popular vote decides the election. If you really want to vote for a democrat, you better damn well get out in vote for the democrats in your local and state elections, so that your votes are in place. Maybe if people would pay attention in 4th grade social studies we wouldn’t have all this confusion.

I’m one of the people that really doesn’t care what happened in Florida

Let’s put this “Bush stole the election” nonsense to rest. Maybe this will “open the minds” of the Democratic supporters out there.

I’m from Florida, so I have a pretty good idea of what really happened.

The election was very close and the Democrats wanted a recount. Well, Florida had pre-existing laws on when a recount can be done and when it can’t. Although the counts were very close, not one of the recount laws was triggered.

The Florida Supreme court said, in effect, “Screw the law. Let’s do a recount anyway.” Holy cow! Can you imagine anything more dangerous than a high court that rules the laws only apply when you want them to?

The U.S. Supreme Court said it saw no reason for the Florida Supreme Court to make that ruling, and even invited the Florida court to explain, which it couldn’t. Hence no official recount and the rule of law is restored.

The recount happened anyway!

That’s right. Every major newspaper in Florida filed for access to the disputed election records and did their own unofficial recount. The result never got any major media attention. Why? Because Bush still won, by something like a mere 1000 votes.

A liberal once told me that conservatives “pay too much attention to history, facts and figures and not enough attention to the real world.” Huh? Based on that, I don’t really expect this post to change anybody’s mind, but I had to try anyway.

Spoken like a true liberal

Stop playing the victim…Gore lost. If any of the “Liberal Media” could have proven otherwise they would have.
Coughlin’s law: Bury the dead, they stink up the joint." This topic is dead.
Take some Midol and you just might feel better.

Me Solomon Grundy


You are the reason why we have a republic and not a democracy. It is up to the educated, both liberal and conservative to save you from your own ignorance. Your lack of logic and inability to wade through the errors in your thinking is stunning, and is truly a tribute to the power of simple propaganda over simple minds. We all shake our heads and wonder why Hitler was able to sway an entire nation towards insane levels of ignorance, but we see it daily at smaller levels in our own media sources.

I would agree with gumnutza that everyone needs to go back to 4th grade and learn some social studies, but in 4th grade you are learning a liberal interpretation of what social studies and history and government should be… I know… I was a teacher.

You actually seem very perturbed by all of the Bush supporters out there, and their lack of being able to see the truth, but you stated not a single fact in that entire rant. I wonder who really cannot see the truth?

My concern Sonny, isn’t that you are ignorant and a product of a feelings generation (much like Germany was in the 40’s…same principle, different attitude)… you are obviously a lost cause due to growing up in the culture you have, and your own inability to decipher fact from propaganda… my true concern is that you may infect an offspring with the same inability to form an argument around facts and principled thinking…

that is what scares me…

not pro-Bush, not pro Kerry…

pro-principles, pro America

Sonny, you so crazy! I love it!

You’re an idiot and I am horrified you are actually given the chance to vote.

I am not a Democrat nor a Republican, and I have both COnservative and liberal opinions, so to all of you who want to classify me as such- too bad.

BUt Flashpoint made my point exactly. THanks.

Read the last sentence in regards to what I stated above, in regards to crime.

Some of you have said “Facts? WHere are the facts? I want my facts!”

One of you said you’re a teacher. So am I. If you have ANY experience WHATSOEVER doing research, you would KNOW that many facts and figures can be twisted to suit your argument. Many, not all of course.

Look at the conflicting research on exercise and nutrition, for an analogy we all understand.

I just finished a paper on Machiavelli’s the Prince, and there is an enormous amount of conflicting information on who he wrote it for, what his intentions were by writing it, and what he thought it migh be used for. THere are historians and academics that have spent most of their professional lives debating small yet important details on Machiavelli.

Hee are some FACTS, cold hard FACTS, that, sadly, few people care about the connection between Bush and the Bin laden family. That’s right, Bin laden’s brother is a dear friend of Our president.

In the hours after 9/11, when all forms of transportation were frozen to and from the US, Bin Laden’s brother was allowed to fly out of the US with an Air Froce escort. If YOU wanted to leave the US, you couldn’t. If YOUR family and friends wanted to rush home from abroad, they couldn’t.

Here are some FACTS: "On September 24, President George W. Bush appeared at a press conference in the White House Rose Garden to announce a crackdown on the financial networks of terrorists and those who support them. ?U.S. banks that have assets of these groups or individuals must freeze their accounts,? Bush declared. ?And U.S. citizens or businesses are prohibited from doing business with them.?

“the president, who is now enjoying an astounding 92 percent approval rating, hasn?t always practiced what he is now preaching: Bush?s own businesses were once tied to financial figures in Saudi Arabia who currently support bin Laden.”


"In 1979, Bush?s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden?s, in Arbusto.

Now Bush denies knowing Bath

"In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the ?80s in what has been called the ?largest bank fraud in world financial history? by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau.

Even the Wall Street Journal did research and concluded that Bush Sr and Jr had ties with terrorist financiers:

"Though Bush told the Wall Street Journal he had ?no idea? BCCI was involved in Harken?s financial dealings, the network of connections between Bush and BCCI is so extensive that the Journal concluded their investigation of the matter in 1991 by stating: ?The number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken?all since George W. Bush came on board?raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son.?

Or even the president: Bath finally came under investigation by the FBI in 1992 for his Saudi business relationships, accused of funneling Saudi money through Houston in order to influence the foreign policies of the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

More evidence Bush did business with terrorism supporters:

"The Arbusto deal wasn?t the last time Bush looked to highly questionable sources to invest in his oil dealings. After several incarnations, Arbusto emerged in 1986 as Harken Energy Corporation. When Harken ran into trouble a year later, Saudi Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased a 17.6 percent stake in the company. Bakhsh was a business partner with Pharaon in Saudi Arabia; his banker there just happened to be bin Mahfouz.

"Worst of all, bin Mahfouz allegedly has been financing the bin Laden terrorist network?making Bush a U.S. citizen who has done business with those who finance and support terrorists. According to USA Today, bin Mahfouz and other Saudis attempted to transfer $3 million to various bin Laden front operations in Saudi Arabia in 1999. ABC News reported the same year that Saudi officials stopped bin Mahfouz from contributing money directly to bin Laden. (Bin Mahfouz?s sister is also a wife of Osama bin Laden, a fact that former CIA Director James Woolsey revealed in 1998 Senate testimony.)

Sonny, you are now officially my favorite ranting lunitic! If I could make a request though, in your next post could you involve some aliens?

A couple years ago a purchased a copy of a tabloid that shows the dirty dealings between the Visitors and Bob Dole. Imagine if Bob would have been President? We may have invaded the enemy planets of the visitors!

Sonny, I have already read Michael Moore’s “Dude, Where is my Country?”

I am more worried about the FACT that you are responsible for the education of our countries’ youth than any of the anti-Bush propaganda that you have been posting.

bEDZ, you are officially my favorite sheeple, and running a close second to asshole.

Reread what I just posted about the Bush-Bin Laden connection.

These are hard facts, and not my emotional rant that started the post.

See what I mean? The Bushes have close ties to Saudi Arabia, the Bin Laden family, all backers of Bin Laden. THough Bin laden’s family has publicly denounced him.
Bush has all kinds of ties to terrosim supporters and white collar criminals and yet…you don’t care.

(Whitewater, that was a scandal.)

I can’t make you care, I can only give you my POV and now that I’ve calmend down, some facts to back it up.

And notice how Bath, who was involved in one of the biggest financial crimes in history, is not in prison.

Proves my original point.

Oh, and I liked Bob Dole.

Sonny S. wins the prize for most deluded poster, ever. You claim to be a teacher? I weep for the youth of America if the likes of you are filling their brains with such unsubstantiated nonsense!