T Nation

To Anyone Doing 5/3/1


#1

My twist on 5/3/1. After the "money set" go an do 3 sets of 5 at 80% of Training Max weight. Been doing this for awhile with a couple of clients of mine who are pretty strong and they are improving at a faster rate (which is important to my financial being) and feel that it seems to works the muscle better.

also the assistance exercises pick smart big compound movements. I see alot of people here are getting lost in the details again.

Lastly the 5/3/1 works best for MOST people on 3 days a week program. It is very hard to progress on 2 upper and 2 lower days a week for strength. It was outlined first (5/3/1) in Wendlers 3 days a week book as a 3 day a WEEK program. Remember that the Westside methods have 2 Max Effort and 2 Dynamic Effort days a week. Some people are doing the 5/3/1 4 days a week all with Max Efort intensity.

Pick your battles my friends: Do you want to get strong or do you just like to lift weights?
edit: these are my observations and ideas.


#2

I think I resent, I mean resemble those remarks.

I think you are on to something, especially for us older dudes.

4x per week is a challenge to recover from.

What are some examples of compound accessories?


#3

I run it Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri and think it works great that way. I suppose it depends on how much extra work you're doing besides the core 5/3/1 work. Good tips though.


#4

No offense intended here: If that is a recent photo of yourself you are still a beginner and anything works at this stage. Keep lifting and grow brother.


#5

For Bench day: Reverse grip benches, pendlay rows,close grip benches,incline presses
Sqaut: Single leg presses,front swauts
OHP: btn presses,bradfords,dbell presses,weighted pullups,dips(both lower body)
deadlifts: banded deads,single leg deadlifts,good mornings(both lower body) power shrugs using fat grips.

Notice not alot of single joint.

Example template

Bench 5/3/1 then 3x5 @ 80%
pendlays 5x8
reverse grip benches 3x15

sqaut 5/3/1 then 3x5 @ 80%
single leg press 5x5
calves and abs

OHP 5/3/1 then 3x5 BTN presses @ 80%
weighted pull ups 5x5
superset 2x15's spider curls and pushdowns ( for vanity)

Deadlift day 5/3/1 then 3x5 @ 80%
abs and acalves

Make sense ^^^^ that is what I am actually doing now


#6

I am 45 years old and run the 5/3/1 4 days per week, M/T/Th/Sa. It works just fine as long as you don't overdo the assistance exercises and or treat them more as hypertrophy reps (8-15 or even more). The clients that I use it with all have had/are having great results with it as well.

I have been training people for over 20 years and typically you can raise even an older clients ability to handle volume (the assistance work) by increasing GPP. Prowler/sled pushing works well for this as it does not beat the body up too much while increasing fitness levels.


#7

Well said.


#8

You cannot compare Westside Method max effort/dynamic effort to 5/3/1. The 5/3/1 is 2 submaximal attempts with one maximal effort. The 2 cannot be compared as they use completely different levels of effort/volume.

You can progress very nicely with 4 limited max effort days per week if the assistance volume is not through the roof. Most people fail on programs due to wanting to do too much and/or not having the fitness level required for the attempted volume.


#9

Great ideas Rick. Oldgoat is doing something cool. He's using a 6/4/2 template. I just thought this was a cool twist on the 5/3/1. Even a 7/5/3 would work. Sorry OG for steeling your thunder.


#10

This is a similar approach to one supported by C. Thibaudeau. Ramp up to a max set, which bascially the 5/3/1 structure, and then do 5x5 with about 80%. I found 5x5 a little much after an all-out set. I like your 3x5 better.

Do you follow the standard 5/3/1 deload approach?


#11

We both know that. alot of people doing this on their own(5/3/1 method) look at their logs to see: is that everyday becomes a max effort day with multiple exercises going to failure every workout, then they start mumbling on why they don't progress after the 3rd month .

I'm just trying to keep it simple across the internet is all and to help people out.


#12

I don't. I usually mess around with strongman/kettlebell training 2-4 days that week for me to incorpate new stuff for the Kettlebell class and or Boot camp class I run.

I am very well conditioned right now and when following the template the only day that whacks me is Deadlift day so I set that up on friday with no weights following for 2 days. When the weights get close to my true maxes then yes I will truly deload.


#13

I'm sure you are trying to help, but Fischer keeps his log here, and he reads ours, and he knows his shit. I think he is posting to help a couple of others here who have stalled on bench and press on 5-3-1. I know I will read your comments, and I appreciate your input, but I would prefer that you not try and turn this thread into a pissing match.


#14

I meant no harm in my response, if it was taken that way.

When I was younger, I utilized a westside approach as a raw lifter and quite frankly it beat the hell out of me, it worked very well too. However, at 45 1/2 that type of volume/intensity would run me into the ground in 3 weeks. 5/3/1 tempers that intensity/volume to a manageable level as long as the assistance is not trained as max effort.

I typically add a high rep set @ 70-75% on after the max effort set for the 1/2/3 weeks on the squat day and I add this set only on the final week(3) of the deadlift day. I pick 1 or 2 assistance exercises for each day plus 2-3 shoulder/trap exercises(cleans or power pulls are always one of these) on upper body days. Throw bi's in 1 time per week. Push a prowler 4 to 5 times per week with varying intensity. Could be 322 pounds, this includes weight of prowler for 10 30 yard sprints/walk alternating low handle to upright handle with 35-45 second rests between pushes or throwing on 50 pounds and pushing for 1/2 mile straight.

If I feel beat, on any lower body day I will do main movement and then just push the prowler. On an upper body day, I would just do the main movement and the antagonistic movement then push prowler.

The biggest lesson to learn as we get older is it is important to keep one's mobility/joint integrity so you have to temper the max effort to get results but at the same time do some bodybuilding to keep the muscle and the movement.


#15

Don't be so sensitive. My comment had nothing to do with a pissing match. It was an observation that pointed out that there is quite a bit of difference between 5/3/1 and Westside.


#16

Thank goodness because after the age of 35 none of us can piss very far.


#17

Only the first one of the day goes far!


#18

I do need to work through some sensitivity issues. I was planning on getting right on that after I fixed my bench and press.

By the way, welcome to the O-35 forum. I'm usually not this pissy, but I recently cut ice cream out of my diet. My wife and kid now spend most of the day hiding in the closet.


#19

Is that the one at 1:30 am,2:30 am or 5:30 am?


#20

HA - so the pissing has now completely hijacked Fisher's thread!