T Nation

To Add or Not to Add Fat Loss Supps?

#1

First off, let me say I am NOT looking for a shortcut or anything. I am obese, I recognize that, and I recognize that only exercise and nutrition changes are going to radically change my body composition. As such, this is my third week of going to the gym and eating significantly cleaner and better.

Like I said, I am not looking for some huge shortcut or anything and I know that the most important thing for me is dedication to my new eating habits and regularly going to the gym to work out.

With that being said, here are my two question:

One, should I add in fat loss supplements now with the mindset of why not, everything helps, or should I wait until my weight loss slows down?

Two, if I should, what should I be taking? Something Biotest, another brand, EC/ECA?

#2

No.

Get your diet, Peri workout nutrition and workout in order first. That will take care 90% of your fat lost.

Good luck

Edit. After Plazma and MAG-10 (or equivalent), you might consider Indigo. But get the priorities in order first.

#3

If you’re just starting out I would set very basic goals:

  1. cut out all food you know is junk from your diet. Don’t worry about keto, paleo, warrior or any specific brand of diet. Just eliminate the junk.

  2. you’re probably very untrained so teach your body to perform the basic compound movements correctly (Squat, bench, deadlift, Overhead press, etc etc) and practice the form over and over while slowly building up your stamina. Don’t worry about the weight on the bar or executing a specific program.

3)Address any limitations your body might have - for instance obese people tend to suffer from orthopedic issues so keep on an eye on how your feet feel on heavy leg exercises.

  1. get on a bike or ellipitical and build up your cardio. Even 15-20min of walking a treadmill at this point will suffice. One note on treadmill use: at your weight it would be a bad idea to jog or sprint, keep it to a walking pace. Feel free to push hard on a bike or elliptical

  2. Get a decent workout nutrition. Some people have used HOT-ROX as a preworkout and find it beneficial (I’ve never done it) but if you really want to add in a fat burner you can do it here. I’ve personally only used Surge from Biotest’s store and liked it.

Once you’ve mastered your cravings, have a body that’s trained enough that it’s able to perform vigorous workouts, post again and ask for specific advice.

Oh and at 6 feet 395lbs you’re looking at 2 years minimum of dieting.

#4

Avoid fat loss formulas with a bargepole. The only thing you’ll drop using them is hard cash! And I say this as someone who is ‘pro-supplement’ in their lifestyle approach. What is worth adding in is a quality green tree extract, as well as a quality organic coffee, both of which have a myriad of other advantages which make them worth taking on a consistent long-term basis.

#5

[quote]JFG wrote:
No.

Get your diet, Peri workout nutrition and workout in order first. That will take care 90% of your fat lost.

Good luck

Edit. After Plazma and MAG-10 (or equivalent), you might consider Indigo. But get the priorities in order first. [/quote]

I think most things I am settling into, but I am still figuring out pre-workout nutrition. Right now I am eating meals low in fat, 30-60g of low to medium GI carbs, and high in protein typically 1-2 hours before my workout.

I’m not taking anything during my workout, but I plan to add in 10-20g of BCAA’s eventually, I just wanted to focus on getting the basics down (diet, exercise, etc) before diving head first into the supplement world.

Post workout I take 2 scoops of Surge Recovery and yesterday I got creatine in and added 10g to that.

Feel free to critique!

#6

[quote]therajraj wrote:
If you’re just starting out I would set very basic goals:

  1. cut out all food you know is junk from your diet. Don’t worry about keto, paleo, warrior or any specific brand of diet. Just eliminate the junk.

  2. you’re probably very untrained so teach your body to perform the basic compound movements correctly (Squat, bench, deadlift, Overhead press, etc etc) and practice the form over and over while slowly building up your stamina. Don’t worry about the weight on the bar or executing a specific program.

3)Address any limitations your body might have - for instance obese people tend to suffer from orthopedic issues so keep on an eye on how your feet feel on heavy leg exercises.

  1. get on a bike or ellipitical and build up your cardio. Even 15-20min of walking a treadmill at this point will suffice. One note on treadmill use: at your weight it would be a bad idea to jog or sprint, keep it to a walking pace. Feel free to push hard on a bike or elliptical

  2. Get a decent workout nutrition. Some people have used HOT-ROX as a preworkout and find it beneficial (I’ve never done it) but if you really want to add in a fat burner you can do it here. I’ve personally only used Surge from Biotest’s store and liked it.

Once you’ve mastered your cravings, have a body that’s trained enough that it’s able to perform vigorous workouts, post again and ask for specific advice.

Oh and at 6 feet 395lbs you’re looking at 2 years minimum of dieting.

[/quote]

  1. Done! I’m eating WAY cleaner and more consistently. No more gatorade at work, fast food for lunch, and only eating 1-2 meals and waiting to eat 4-5 hours after I wake up.

  2. I played HS/college football and was an avid weight lifter before I got married so I still have a decent grasp on form, but yeah I totally agree that one thing that became apparently was focusing more on quality reps/sets with weight appropriate to the shape I am in now rather than focusing on trying to put as much weight on the bar.

  3. Even with weight light for my legs, I lean forward far too much and my back rounds on squats so I cut them out and am waiting to lose some of my gut and strengthen my core/back/glutes/hams. Other than that, the only thing I am aware of is my knees. They don’t hurt, but I know there is a ton of weight on those joints.

  4. I plan to add in the eliptical soon, but I feel like right now I am gassed enough at the end of my workouts and don’t have the energy for it since even weightlifting for 45-60 minutes takes a toll on me. I am not sure if I should just suck it up and just get in 10-15 minutes of low intensity cardio every workout even at this stage or if I would just burn myself out because of how out of shape I am.

  5. I want to add BCAA’s during my workouts, but as far as stimulants I occasionally have a zero calorie energy drink but that is about it so far.

Feel free to critique!

#7

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Avoid fat loss formulas with a bargepole. The only thing you’ll drop using them is hard cash! And I say this as someone who is ‘pro-supplement’ in their lifestyle approach. What is worth adding in is a quality green tree extract, as well as a quality organic coffee, both of which have a myriad of other advantages which make them worth taking on a consistent long-term basis.[/quote]

For the GTE, how would you recommend timing? One dose upon waking up, one in-between breakfast and lunch (I workout 1-2 hours after lunch for reference).

#8

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
If you’re just starting out I would set very basic goals:

  1. cut out all food you know is junk from your diet. Don’t worry about keto, paleo, warrior or any specific brand of diet. Just eliminate the junk.

  2. you’re probably very untrained so teach your body to perform the basic compound movements correctly (Squat, bench, deadlift, Overhead press, etc etc) and practice the form over and over while slowly building up your stamina. Don’t worry about the weight on the bar or executing a specific program.

3)Address any limitations your body might have - for instance obese people tend to suffer from orthopedic issues so keep on an eye on how your feet feel on heavy leg exercises.

  1. get on a bike or ellipitical and build up your cardio. Even 15-20min of walking a treadmill at this point will suffice. One note on treadmill use: at your weight it would be a bad idea to jog or sprint, keep it to a walking pace. Feel free to push hard on a bike or elliptical

  2. Get a decent workout nutrition. Some people have used HOT-ROX as a preworkout and find it beneficial (I’ve never done it) but if you really want to add in a fat burner you can do it here. I’ve personally only used Surge from Biotest’s store and liked it.

Once you’ve mastered your cravings, have a body that’s trained enough that it’s able to perform vigorous workouts, post again and ask for specific advice.

Oh and at 6 feet 395lbs you’re looking at 2 years minimum of dieting.

[/quote]

  1. Done! I’m eating WAY cleaner and more consistently. No more gatorade at work, fast food for lunch, and only eating 1-2 meals and waiting to eat 4-5 hours after I wake up.

  2. I played HS/college football and was an avid weight lifter before I got married so I still have a decent grasp on form, but yeah I totally agree that one thing that became apparently was focusing more on quality reps/sets with weight appropriate to the shape I am in now rather than focusing on trying to put as much weight on the bar.

  3. Even with weight light for my legs, I lean forward far too much and my back rounds on squats so I cut them out and am waiting to lose some of my gut and strengthen my core/back/glutes/hams. Other than that, the only thing I am aware of is my knees. They don’t hurt, but I know there is a ton of weight on those joints.

  4. I plan to add in the eliptical soon, but I feel like right now I am gassed enough at the end of my workouts and don’t have the energy for it since even weightlifting for 45-60 minutes takes a toll on me. I am not sure if I should just suck it up and just get in 10-15 minutes of low intensity cardio every workout even at this stage or if I would just burn myself out because of how out of shape I am.

  5. I want to add BCAA’s during my workouts, but as far as stimulants I occasionally have a zero calorie energy drink but that is about it so far.

Feel free to critique!
[/quote]

Consider going for a leisurely walk for 15-30min at night time. Nothing strenuous.

Other than that, get a full hormonal panel done. Thyroid, Test, Estrogen, etc.

#9

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Avoid fat loss formulas with a bargepole. The only thing you’ll drop using them is hard cash! And I say this as someone who is ‘pro-supplement’ in their lifestyle approach. What is worth adding in is a quality green tree extract, as well as a quality organic coffee, both of which have a myriad of other advantages which make them worth taking on a consistent long-term basis.[/quote]

For the GTE, how would you recommend timing? One dose upon waking up, one in-between breakfast and lunch (I workout 1-2 hours after lunch for reference).
[/quote]

I prefer it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, but I fast until lunch so the rationale is it may assist with fat burning during this period. Some trainers advocate it prior to any form of exercise, so that may be another option. Regardless of when, its antioxidant value coupled with low cost makes it a valuable addition to your programme.

#10

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
If you’re just starting out I would set very basic goals:

  1. cut out all food you know is junk from your diet. Don’t worry about keto, paleo, warrior or any specific brand of diet. Just eliminate the junk.

  2. you’re probably very untrained so teach your body to perform the basic compound movements correctly (Squat, bench, deadlift, Overhead press, etc etc) and practice the form over and over while slowly building up your stamina. Don’t worry about the weight on the bar or executing a specific program.

3)Address any limitations your body might have - for instance obese people tend to suffer from orthopedic issues so keep on an eye on how your feet feel on heavy leg exercises.

  1. get on a bike or ellipitical and build up your cardio. Even 15-20min of walking a treadmill at this point will suffice. One note on treadmill use: at your weight it would be a bad idea to jog or sprint, keep it to a walking pace. Feel free to push hard on a bike or elliptical

  2. Get a decent workout nutrition. Some people have used HOT-ROX as a preworkout and find it beneficial (I’ve never done it) but if you really want to add in a fat burner you can do it here. I’ve personally only used Surge from Biotest’s store and liked it.

Once you’ve mastered your cravings, have a body that’s trained enough that it’s able to perform vigorous workouts, post again and ask for specific advice.

Oh and at 6 feet 395lbs you’re looking at 2 years minimum of dieting.

[/quote]

  1. Done! I’m eating WAY cleaner and more consistently. No more gatorade at work, fast food for lunch, and only eating 1-2 meals and waiting to eat 4-5 hours after I wake up.

  2. I played HS/college football and was an avid weight lifter before I got married so I still have a decent grasp on form, but yeah I totally agree that one thing that became apparently was focusing more on quality reps/sets with weight appropriate to the shape I am in now rather than focusing on trying to put as much weight on the bar.

  3. Even with weight light for my legs, I lean forward far too much and my back rounds on squats so I cut them out and am waiting to lose some of my gut and strengthen my core/back/glutes/hams. Other than that, the only thing I am aware of is my knees. They don’t hurt, but I know there is a ton of weight on those joints.

  4. I plan to add in the eliptical soon, but I feel like right now I am gassed enough at the end of my workouts and don’t have the energy for it since even weightlifting for 45-60 minutes takes a toll on me. I am not sure if I should just suck it up and just get in 10-15 minutes of low intensity cardio every workout even at this stage or if I would just burn myself out because of how out of shape I am.

  5. I want to add BCAA’s during my workouts, but as far as stimulants I occasionally have a zero calorie energy drink but that is about it so far.

Feel free to critique!
[/quote]

Consider going for a leisurely walk for 15-30min at night time. Nothing strenuous.

Other than that, get a full hormonal panel done. Thyroid, Test, Estrogen, etc.

[/quote]

Those sound like good ideas, especially the walking. I bet it would help with bloodflow and soreness.

#11

Hmm, it’s dirt cheap so I’ll have to pick some up and experiment with timing. Thanks for the tip!

#12

at this time you dont need any supplement…once you get to 20% BF then start adding protein shakes, BCAA and GTE (but in all honesty i prefer food to supps, cause i can easily reach my pro, carb and fat numbers when dieting, and add supps when bulking)

#13

[quote]dodo888 wrote:
at this time you dont need any supplement…once you get to 20% BF then start adding protein shakes, BCAA and GTE (but in all honesty i prefer food to supps, cause i can easily reach my pro, carb and fat numbers when dieting, and add supps when bulking)[/quote]

If you mean protein shakes as a means of meal replacements, I agree. At this stage I just need to focus on healthy eating habits. However, if you mean PWO nutrition I don’t see any reason to stop taking them. Same with adding in BCAA’s. Regardless of my body fat percentage, I am still working hard in the gym. Yes, I can have a meal instead I guess, but it’s hard to beat the prep of a simple shake with everything I need in it. I think supplements that promote recovery and performance in the gym should be separated from supplements that aid fat loss. I agree with you in general that at this stage I don’t need to go supplement crazy, but I’m only taking a few supplements as it is (Biotest Surge Recovery after workouts with creatine monohydrate added and ZMA around bed time).

#14

Try EGCG green tea extract pre workout.

Once you’re busting ass in the gym try HOT-ROX as a pre workout once or twice a week before heaviest workouts.

#15

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Try EGCG green tea extract pre workout.

Once you’re busting ass in the gym try HOT-ROX as a pre workout once or twice a week before heaviest workouts. [/quote]

I’ll try that, thanks. I have been wanting something for a pre-workout booster rather than drinking zero calorie energy drinks.

I might skip the HOT-ROX until I drop substantial weight, but only because I am already hot and sweating profusely and I’m not sure how comfortable I would be with a thermogenic as potent as that lol.

#16

Are green tea extracts that much better than drinking a couple of cups daily?

#17

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Are green tea extracts that much better than drinking a couple of cups daily?[/quote]

for me yes, you would need to get about 8 cups to get the same effect as a good egcg