T Nation

Tmuscle: F**k Genetics


Ok maybe that was a bit harsh. But I want to ask all tmuscle huge monsters two questions: There's so much talk about "you can only go so far with genetics," but from the looks of things most people here want to smash that and some have even been successful. So, I'm asking the monsters themselves: is genetics irrelevant now? Second question, I too want to be huge but most importantly to look good naked and great under shirts(think CT guy looks awesome in t-shirts). Now my question is to get big you gotta eat big right? Like eat as much as you can per day, 5000 calories right? or is this the wrong approach as taking it too far results in mostly fat gain? BTW I'm talking to monsters: those who are crazy defined at their size, not those who look like those fat powerlifters(ain't tryna prejudice but fuck just look at some of the guys in powerlifting videos)? Here's my take: if I find out that at 240 lb I can look extremely shredded at 200 lb(dense-looking, not those people during contests where their skin is paper-thin), I'd be one very happy guy. If however, it turns out to be 180, I'd be one madman. So what's your take, monsters?




wtf meaning what? please clarify. It was just my thoughts and questions. no thinking and no holding back, just what was on my mind.


BB.com may be right for you


Why would that site be right? Please don't tell me you think I want to take steroids because that def is not the case. I was just trying to say that tmuscle is at the front for mass and all things muscle. Genetics means nothing to you guys. You guys have emulated that you won't stop in your quest to become huge, and that's what makes tmuscle so appealing, the fact that you guys are relentless.


Genetics do play a role. Most people trying to build an impressive physique either don't realize or don't accept that.

Most will easily accept that not everybody has the genetics to become a pro NBA player (I'm 5'8'', I could play basketball 24-7 and would never make it), an olympic sprinter or a NFL all-star. But for some reason when it comes to building a huge body most don't accept that what you can accomplish, and how fast you can accomplish it IS influenced by genetics.

Don't get me wrong; everybody can add a significant amount of muscle mass on their frame. And with enough consistency and discipline, everybody can get very lean. But not everybody can become ''monsters'' as you put it.

A lot of huge guys will tell you that it isn't true. That genetics are just an excuse. Why are they saying that? Because if they ARE huge themselves it is likely that they at least have decent genetics. WE ALL TAKE PRIDE IN TRAINING HARDER THAN OTHERS OR KNOWING MORE ABOUT TRAINING THAN MOST...SOME BIG GUYS DOWN WANT TO DOWNPLAY THEIR EFFORTS AND KNOWLEDGE BY ADMITTING THAT GENETICS HELPED THEM GET A HEAD START.

I trained with a guy who could bench press 400lbs within 5 months of training. I know another who could bench press 405lbs x 12 reps and barely trained at all, and when he did it was without much effort. I had a friend who was 180lbs on 5'6'' and in what could be defined as bodybuilding contest condition (full muscle bellies, less than 5% body fat) AND DIDN'T EVEN TRAIN.

I worked with a pro football player (for rehab) who was 235lbs at 6% bodyfat on 6'2'' who only lifted weight (half-assed) 3 months out of the year.

YES genetics play a role. It's a tough pill to swallow for everybody... those who have it on their side don't want it to explain their superiority and those who don't have it on their side don't want to acknowledge that they will probably never reach ''freak'' status.

That having been said. I think that most can eventually get to a point where they are turning heads when they walk by. For some it may take as little as 6 months, for some it might take 15 years. So I do not think that poor genetics should ever be used as a copout. From experience, everybody can add at least 30lbs of lean muscle during their lifting ''career''. For example if your ''normal untrained adult bodyweight'' was destined to be 170lbs (look at the members of your familly who don't train to get an idea) then you should eventually be able to reach at least a muscular 200lbs and a bulked up (muscular but somewhat fat) 220-230. Now, the amount of time that it takes you to get to that point will depend on how hard you train, how well you eat and, yes, your genetics. And that 30lbs is what I consider a minimum. Some can add more than that.

I'm saying all of this to give you realistic expectations, not to discourage you. Ultimately we do not know what our genetics are until we are serious about training and nutrition for a while and get to see how our body reacts to training.

As for your question about eating... you can't force-feed your way to more muscle. YES you need an abundance of nutrients and calories to grow. But there comes a point where adding more and more food will only add more fat to your frame without adding more muscle. We are limited by our natural physiology... your body can only fabricate X amount of muscle per day, and this amount is determined by your hormonal status, muscle fiber makeup and other genetic predispositions. But once that you are feeding your body enough nutrients to fuel that maximum rate of muscle growth, adding more food will not result in more muscle growth.


Wow answered by the big man himself. I do have a question about your genetics though: if you're 5'8, and was permitted to be close to 250 lb at less than 10?, genetics must've favored you, but how?! Thank you. I've been at it long enough to realize there are no secret diets or training programs, although you have managed to create one close to it:).

So with that said, obviously training is narrowed down extensively with the release of I bodybuilder, but you did mention how well you eat. I'm not looking for the holy Grail of nutrition, but give me guidelines, or whatever advice especially from you and I'm down for it all. tell me to stop eating carbs at 6 pm, I'll do it. Tell me to wake up and train at 6am, I'll do it. Tell me to eat vegetables even for breakfast, I'll do it. Tell me to pack food everyday to eat between classes and eventually work I'll do it. I'll do whatever it takes.

There really is only one limit as to how far I'll go besides health and morality: the consistency and bounce-back I.e. the starvation people and Arnold. I need the results to stay consistent years after, when I probably won't have the time or dedication like you to train, eat, and support a family along with a job. I'm not looking to get skinnier or fatter as I grow older, even well into my 50's.


really great response. Has already been embedded into my brain for life. Yeah, I'm one of the people who hate that genetics will always limit me. I'm surprised at hoe many genetic freaks you've met! And they aren't even competitive bodybuilders! I must say also your genetic expectations are higher than most nutrition experts out there. I really love the work you do here and hope you're still here when I'm 40.


The IBB program on this site is only the first step in learning our system. I'm currently working on more advanced programs. IBB is basically a tool to teach you the perfect way to execute a rep and how to autoregulate your training. The upcoming programs will be quite different, although based on the same basic principles.

As for genetics, I can build muscle relatively easily. The men in my family are all fairly solid. My kid brother only trained 6 months in his life and was able to get up to 280 on 5'11'' (although he was fat) and could deadlift 500lbs for 5 reps at 16 years of age.

I seem to build muscle easily, but gain fat easily too. So for me, the biggest hurdle was to get lean. For some it's the opposite: they are very lean and have problems gaining muscle. Others have it the hard way in both goals.


BTW at 250 I wasn't at 10%, never claimed to be. I was more around 15% and holding a lot of water.

The ''best'' size-wise that I got while still being fairly lean was 235 (near the end of the original IBB experiment). You could still see my abs (but they are naturally thick) but I wasn't schredded, probably 10%... this is the state I was in here:


I look my best (to me) at roughly 220lbs at which I'm around 7%. Below that I lose my fullness, especially in the shoulders and look stringy and narrow.


Im just gonna throw in my 2 cents here....

If I were you man....I would just focus on getting LEAN first....strip off the body fat and see where you are really at. I always had trouble getting lean myself, but I find it is still way easier to get shredded than say add on 15lbs of solid muscle (at least from a time frame stand point)....I think any one can get "ripped" if you figure out your diet and such. once you diet for a good amount of time (think 12-16 weeks) and you are lean....than I would focus on building some muscle...

The best part of this is that once you diet down to a fairly lean level, and start adding in more CLEAN calories, you will get a bit of an "anabolic rebound"... if you haven't experienced this yet...YOU ARE MISSING OUT!!!!.I think it is probably the most fun you would EVER have in the gym.....its like your a P.R. smashing machine.....

anyways Im no Thib....but I am also not a genetic freak...and have built an "above average" physique using this method...and remember the leaner you are...the bigger you seem to look (while within reason)....bodybuilding is an illusion sport :slight_smile:


You can't change your bone size. Think about that. Then look at these numbers. Then measure your wrists and ankles...


Want to be HEUUUUGE? Have big wrists and ankles.

While diet and training has improved...so has the use and availability of illegal steroids and quasi-legal prohormones.



Bricknyce, Alpha, and some other people would probably disagree. Not trying to be stupid, but I found out one cool thing about tmuscle: one of their beliefs is that, "you're not lean under 200 lb, you're doing something wrong."


Damn CT 180lb at that short at 5%?? I wouldn't have thought that was even possible without training.