I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development.
Not meaning to hijack, but to the dudes that train their shoulders twice a week, how do you work your split? I currently do a 5 day split;
Monday - Arms
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Shoulders
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Back
Saturday - Chest
Sunday - Rest
I’d really like to add size to my shoulders also.
[quote]Ramsay777 wrote:
Not meaning to hijack, but to the dudes that train their shoulders twice a week, how do you work your split? I currently do a 5 day split;
Monday - Arms
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Shoulders
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Back
Saturday - Chest
Sunday - Rest
I’d really like to add size to my shoulders also.[/quote]
2ways split :
A chest tris legs abs
B back delts bis
rest
C legs chest tris abs
D delts back bis
rest
rest
3ways split:
A chest bis
B delts legs
C back tris
(put abs work where you wanna…)
hope it helps
[quote]plateau wrote:
[quote]BDiddy19 wrote:
up your volume with barbell presses, don’t lock out at the top as it keeps the tension on the shoulders (time under tension equals growth) [/quote]
There are more than one variable that affect growth, focusing on one would be a mistake.[/quote]
I appreciate that but i’m speaking from experience in great shoulder gains when once they were my main weak point but you’re telling me that locking out will improve them as opposed to not locking out? I highly doubt it!
yeh sure you’ll get a nice tricep workout at the expense of your shoulders!
[quote]BDiddy19 wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
[quote]BDiddy19 wrote:
up your volume with barbell presses, don’t lock out at the top as it keeps the tension on the shoulders (time under tension equals growth) [/quote]
There are more than one variable that affect growth, focusing on one would be a mistake.[/quote]
I appreciate that but i’m speaking from experience in great shoulder gains when once they were my main weak point but you’re telling me that locking out will improve them as opposed to not locking out? I highly doubt it!
yeh sure you’ll get a nice tricep workout at the expense of your shoulders!
[/quote]
- You have the reading comprehension skills of a ten year old
- No that is all, go back re-read my response and try again
Haven’t read the entire thread so if this has been posted I apologise now. Poliquin posted this article this week on shoulders, titled “want big shoulders”. - http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/659/Want-Big-Shoulders.aspx
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.
Obviously you need to work your side deltoid, but I also feel it should be said that there is more to looking wide than just having well developed shoulders. I think making my upper back and chest bigger have contributed as much as anything else to my width (and the “illusion” of it).
The whole reason broad shoulders looks cool is because you want the upper half of your torso to overshadow your waist, making it look smaller… and simply having nice little popping side deltoids on an otherwise stringy physique isn’t going to make anybody look wide.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is probably a perfect example of somebody who never had outstanding side deltoid development, and genetically had unremarkable shoulder width and a wider waist, but looked incredible because of the proportions he built his upper body to. At his peak he was extremely broad, but it wasn’t because he had really really good side delts. LOL
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Obviously you need to work your side deltoid, but I also feel it should be said that there is more to looking wide than just having well developed shoulders. I think making my upper back and chest bigger have contributed as much as anything else to my width (and the “illusion” of it).
The whole reason broad shoulders looks cool is because you want the upper half of your torso to overshadow your waist, making it look smaller… and simply having nice little popping side deltoids on an otherwise stringy physique isn’t going to make anybody look wide.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is probably a perfect example of somebody who never had outstanding side deltoid development, and genetically had unremarkable shoulder width and a wider waist, but looked incredible because of the proportions he built his upper body to. At his peak he was extremely broad, but it wasn’t because he had really really good side delts. LOL[/quote]
Good post.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.[/quote]
ID- no i got that, i just didn’t notice the bottom of the movement before. i think the pitch of his body the bend @ the elbows, leading w/ them, and the slight cheat to keep the traps out of the movement were the key points.
i enjoy shoulder training very much, it’s nice because (at least for me) shoulders lean out first so i can maintain size and still have visible veins through them.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.[/quote]
ID- no i got that, i just didn’t notice the bottom of the movement before. i think the pitch of his body the bend @ the elbows, leading w/ them, and the slight cheat to keep the traps out of the movement were the key points.
i enjoy shoulder training very much, it’s nice because (at least for me) shoulders lean out first so i can maintain size and still have visible veins through them.
[/quote]
Cy, you mentioned having narrow clavicles. Larry does too. You might want to dig up some of his old routines… especially the one he used to build his once incredible delts. I believe one of those routines included going up and down the dumbbell rack.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.[/quote]
ID- no i got that, i just didn’t notice the bottom of the movement before. i think the pitch of his body the bend @ the elbows, leading w/ them, and the slight cheat to keep the traps out of the movement were the key points.
i enjoy shoulder training very much, it’s nice because (at least for me) shoulders lean out first so i can maintain size and still have visible veins through them.
[/quote]
He was demonstrating the crossover as a key part of the movement. Never did he say it was a personal thing for him, he said to crossover and had the other guy do it aswell. Not saying he is wrong, just saying I wouldnt do them like that. And honestly I can’t think of any current or recent pros do them like that either.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.[/quote]
ID- no i got that, i just didn’t notice the bottom of the movement before. i think the pitch of his body the bend @ the elbows, leading w/ them, and the slight cheat to keep the traps out of the movement were the key points.
i enjoy shoulder training very much, it’s nice because (at least for me) shoulders lean out first so i can maintain size and still have visible veins through them.
[/quote]
He was demonstrating the crossover as a key part of the movement. Never did he say it was a personal thing for him, he said to crossover and had the other guy do it aswell. Not saying he is wrong, just saying I wouldnt do them like that. And honestly I can’t think of any current or recent pros do them like that either.[/quote]
He has stated elsewhere that the crossover is only to keep the DB’s from banging together.
Good thread, keep the advice coming. My medial delts continue to be my weakest muscle, and the slowest to grow. No problem with front and rear delts, but medial is stubborn for some reason.
I’m def still a beginner, and I’m no where near big (6’2", 200), but I remember early on I read something Stu wrote about medial delts being essential for that ‘capped’ delt look. From there after, I’ve always worked my side delts twice a week: one day heavy with ‘cheating’ up heavy weight, and the other with good form, constant tension, ect. My back width and chest suck, but I always have a ‘wider’ look to the top to me (ppl have pointed this out to me at the gym before, this is the only reason I know), and I’ve always attributed that to the medial delt NEVER being a body part I neglected…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Heavy partial LRs seem to be working for me. Look up John Meadows’ T-Nation article on shoulders or watch the vid of CT and Prof X doing shoulders from about a month ago in the Training Lab. The partial ROM lets you take the traps out of the movement completely.
The key, at least for me, is to keep constant tension on the shoulders while doing them. Don’t let the DBs just drop to your sides on the eccentric. I like to try to keep them from touching my legs at all. You should do these for higher reps too (20+).[/quote]
I actually don’t do partials for shoulders very often. I will add them back in probably when I go back to gaining because I will be using more weight.
One of the biggest things that blew my shoulders up…was training them more than onee a week.[/quote]
So direct shoulder work builds shoulders? Direct arm work builds arms.
This deserves its own article.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I know it’s Larry Scott and all, and I agree with what he says, but I would not do lateral raises the way he does. It just looks so funky him crossing over at the bottom(why?) and seems like it would lead to uneven development. [/quote]
good catch. i didn’t notice the croosover @ the bottom. i don’t do that either, seems like it might help w/ a stretch @ the bottom but looks like more trouble than it’s worth.
[/quote]
I was in the gym a long time ago and this guy was what he called lateral raises, I call frontal plane, angry eagle, knee dipping shrugs. He should have crossed over. Unfortunately, he clacked the dumbbells together in front of him and caught his stem and berries between them. Over 25 years ago and it still hurts to think about it.
Larry only does that to avoid banging the dumbbells together. It’s not what he was demonstrating as a key part of the movement, obviously.[/quote]
think we’ve covered alot here. i’m off to train shoulders now so i will be thinking of not popping the frank and beans between the db’s on laterals.
video for pre-worlout fun. never really noticed how big lee priest’s traps are while relaxed, monster. like as a second back growing out of the top of his back. here is a shoulder’s and calves video.
Its funny how I never noticed that so many BBers do lateral raises with arms forward. I’ll have to try this tonight, see how it feels.