[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would someone worry so much about overtraining if it wasn’t happening?[/quote]
Uhhhhh…because it was happening. My delt weights were stagnating and it took me a while to figure it out and come up with ways to work around it.
I was working a chest/back and delts/arms split for my upper body. I changed it to a chest/back/delts and back/arms split (I found out at about the same time that my lats/upper back reponded well to more frequent training). My delts are coming along much better now.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
I think that this first piece is dangerously vague; I said the same thing when the article was originally published.
“1. The shoulder joint is the most mobile in the body. As such, it’s rather fragile and prone to injury. Strengthening the shoulder joint muscles is a sure way to reduce the risk of getting hurt.”
“Strengthing the shoulder joint muscles” doesn’t tell me much about shoulder health. Make the pecs, delts, and upper traps strong, and you can actually be contributing to shoulder pathology. Making the lats stronger can help or hurt shoulder problems. Rotator cuff strengthening is what he meant, and you just don’t get that with lateral raises and overhead pressing.
Just my two cents; I would have left that first bit out.
In addition to external rotation, there is also perhaps a more important issue of “tucking” the scapula. Anyway, these functions can be trained by laterals and presses done strictly in the lower half of the ROM. I originally did a lot of external rotations to assist my bench press, but I figured out it was what’s going on with the scapula that matters during the movemement.
Also, I remember how Poloquin wrote about guys bringing up their external rotations from like 8 pound for 3 reps to 25 pounds for 10 but remember that they droppped bench pressing during that period. Stop working your internal rotators and your external rotations will go up.
Anyway, at least he got me thinking about the shoulders differently.
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
superscience wrote:
The next day i usualy had serious DOMS in my pecs.
On tuesday i trained shoulders which consisted of, 6 sets of shoulder pressing to failure (front of the neck), 4 sets of lateral raises on each delt and 3 sets of behind the neck pressing (everything to failure), 6 sets of shrugs to failure.
Never once did i get DOMS in my deltoid s from that type of training. I only ever got DOMS on my traps, but not too often.
The question to be asked is: Did you increase weights and reps consistently on that program?[/quote]
I don’t think many can get very big without isolation work. But I think it’s entirely possible to add some good size without ever doing a curl or lateral raise. Maybe 16-17 inch arms. So, basically I don’t think it’s a bad thing to focus on compound work even to the exclusion of isolation work till you get a solid base and are stagnating. Not that even beginners can’t reap some benefits from isolation work.
I think the whole no isolation ever craze started in something reasonable- most people don’t need an arms day or a shoulder day. And of course no one seems to be able to conceive of a moderate middle ground inbetween 16 types of curls or no curls at all, we get this.
As for the whole isolation thing, I think Cosgrove was right when he said overreaction/underreaction…
Also, most people don’t need near as much isolation work as they do. This isn’t talking the average educated t-man, I’m talking your average joe in the gym. The “flyes and curls” guys. Seriously, deadlifts and pullups won’t hurt you.
Also, I have a serious problem with the rediculousy skinny guys at the gym curling. I’m talking the college kid that weighs all of 115 and is doing reverese grip preacher curls. WTF?! I somehow don’t think isolating the brachial head of the bicep is what is holding back this guys physique. Now I know I’m not huge, but wtf is this guy thinking?
[quote]wressler125 wrote:
As for the whole isolation thing, I think Cosgrove was right when he said overreaction/underreaction…
Also, most people don’t need near as much isolation work as they do. This isn’t talking the average educated t-man, I’m talking your average joe in the gym. The “flyes and curls” guys. Seriously, deadlifts and pullups won’t hurt you.
Also, I have a serious problem with the rediculousy skinny guys at the gym curling. I’m talking the college kid that weighs all of 115 and is doing reverese grip preacher curls. WTF?! I somehow don’t think isolating the brachial head of the bicep is what is holding back this guys physique. Now I know I’m not huge, but wtf is this guy thinking?[/quote]
He’s thinking, “Hey, this is a great exercise for my lower biceps. I’ll be busting out of my polo at the next big frat party.”