T Nation

Time to Ramp It Up


#1

First off, just want to start by saying hello to everyone on here, and I hope to receive some correct and useful information/guidance. I've recently retired after serving for quite some time in the military and six combat deployments. I'll leave my occupation out of this as I've moved on to the private contracted sector...but a few of you can probably guess what I did/do from my avitar and username.

Anyway, I've always had to maintain peak physical fitness to carry out my occupational requirements...but now I'm free of the consistent random drug tests and want to go "bigger, faster, stronger" by means of extra supplements. I've done a few lower dosed cycles in the past that was enough to make a difference in my performance during direct-action missions (please don't judge me since I was still in the service, but I kind of wanted to stay alive and have as much help doing so if you know what I mean). These cycles generally consisted of 250mg Test-C M/T injections for 8-10 weeks, then followed up with a proper PCT.

NOW I WANT TO RAMP IT UP!

The irony in all this is I've now been diagnosed with Low-T...but now I get government issued Test-C in 1ml/200mg vials on a very regular basis. So I have quite a bit of that stored up and stock piled, and I just acquired 50ml of oral Stanozolol at 50mg/1ml...giving me roughly 7 weeks of supply on the Stanz.

I'm currently 36 y/o, 5' 7", 180-183lbs, 07-08% BFC, but I want to hit 200lbs at <07%. The 14 week cycle I propose is listed below, and yes, I'm on (and always have been) a very healthy diet with all the appropriate amount of essential vitamins, minerals, and proteins. I rarely take any other supplements than whey protein mainly, but will occasionally take a pre-workout supplement for energy or nitric oxide.

Also, I almost forgot to mention, but before I was prescribed the injectable Test-C, I was prescribed Andro-Gel, which I probably have a year's supply of still. I also have a very large supply of injectable Novarel that I was prescribed for fertility issues (but wife got pregnant and they kept prescribing it for a long time on accident).

This is my proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-12: 200mg injection every third day. (Not the typical twice a week M/T injection due to 200mg/vial T value)

Weeks 7-14: 50mg ED oral Stanz

Weeks ?-?: Novarel or Andro-Gel for PCT

So I'm looking for honest opinions on this cycle idea. I have thick skin, so lay it on me if I'm way off base or if you have moral issues with what I've shared. I also need recommendations for my PCT on a cycle such as this. I'm open to all suggestions or criticism, just looking for correct guidance on reaching my goal.

Thank you in advance for any input!


#2

Would you describe your HRT situation as being that you still have substantial natural production which you’d like to maintain, so as to not become absolutely dependent on injection, or is there no issue there and you’re already genuinely dependent?

If already having much too low production to be sufficient, then I don’t understand the PCT references.

The reason I ask is that if maintaining what you have is important, then advice is entirely different than if there is no such need.


#3

Why would you use androgel for pct? Youre on trt so yoi should just go back to your prescribed dose. What is your rationale for using androgel of all things for pct.


#4

Letting you know I have Andro-Gel (which I didn’t have after previous cycles), and that’s why I’m on here to ask for advice on this cycle and PCT. And Mr. Roberts, I’m not dependent on any T supplement as my body produces enough on its own…I had lowered my T levels for blood work using various methods to get the prescriptions instead of looking for sources… If Andro-Gel doesn’t work for PCT then I won’t use it…hence the questioning for advice on this forum, gentlemen.


#5

Not sure if my replies are actually posting or not. Anyway, Andro-gel out for PCT (it was new to me and thought it may work), thank you for “setting me straight”, sir. Also, I manipulated my T levels for the bloodwork to get prescribed what I’m receiving, my body produces sufficient T on its own, my FSH and LH levels just got off for a little while. Thanks for the advice so far, I greatly appreciate it, any other words of wisdom?


#6

If youre on trt your body is no longer producing natural testosterone. The longer youre injecting t, the more likely you will not properly recover your natural t levels.

If you decide to pct or not depends on if you want to attempt to recover your natural testosterone without injections or gels, or if you just want to stay on your prescription trt dose after there is no reason to pct because you cannot recover natural testosterone levels while injecting or applying gels.


#7

Ok. So let’s say I take that route, continue with the Andro-gel or prescribed injection amount after cycle, I’ll have no need for PCT. But how does the cycle sound? Reasonable? Excessive? Insufficient? Any changes that you’d recommend? I don’t have sources to gather other gear to stack with, so this is the best I can work with…


#8

If the cause is secondary hypogonadism (producing relatively little LH) then there will be even more importance than usual to the cycles being easy to recover from and PCT being proper. If the cause is primary hypogonadism (LH signal to produce testosterone being good, but testes not being fully responsive) then care needs only to be as usual.

Assuming the second, I would make it no more than a 12 week cycle. There is no point really to the two additional weeks of Winstrol. I would also define the 12 weeks as the point of having suppressed levels, so this would be 11 weeks of injections. The last week would ride on the previous weeks plus the Winstrol.

The longer the cycle, the harder to recover from.

As for PCT, same as usual.


#9

Great recommendations, gentlemen. I greatly appreciate all the advice. So I’ll stick to a 12 week cycle, no PCT (go back on regular prescription post-cycle)…but what about the Winstrol? How many weeks should I take It ED orally? And obviously when I find out peak length of use, I’ll know when to start it. Thank you again!


#10

I apologize if I’m repeating myself on here, but I’m not seeing any of my replies showing up on this post. What I have so far is that Andro-gel is NOT a PCT option, I should use either of my original Andro-gel or Test-C prescription dosages post-cycle, that I should not do a 14 week cycle but rather a 12 week cycle. I hope I have all of that correct up to this point…it’s been a while since I’ve used any gear, so like I said, any proper recommendations will be considered.

The only question I’m at now, is that if I do a 12 week cycle, do I still use the 7 weeks of Winstrol starting on the 5th week of my cycle, or should I cut the Winstrol to 5 weeks and start it on the 7th week?

Thank you yet again for any further recommendations!


#11

There have been many discussions of proper PCT. The only difference in this case is that I would use low dose testosterone injectable during the PCT, for example 100 mg/week, as your natural production is not as good as would ordinarily be the case during PCT.

The reason for the lower-than-your-usual dosage is that recovery is helped by testosterone level being a little low, and slowed or stopped by it being elevated.

There’s certainly room for flexibility on the Winstrol. For a conservative approach, how about the last 6 weeks? Nothing wrong with that.


#12

Fuck winny. Get some dbol.


#13

It would do better.

In general as there is so much information already written, I try to leave as little untouched from original ideas as possible, while addressing the things that would be particularly important to change. That’s particularly so for me when the cycle appears little researched (the more researched it is, the more detail I like going into.) So for example here, as the cycle will work with Winstrol, I left the detail of it being Winstrol or another oral alone, particularly as there was no anti-aromatase already in the plan. That’s just me; on your mentioning it, I agree with you Dianabol is a better choice here provided an aromatase is added.

The cycle appears very little researched; I would suggest more research before looking for more information.


#14

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It would do better.

In general as there is so much information already written, I try to leave as little untouched from original ideas as possible, while addressing the things that would be particularly important to change. That’s particularly so for me when the cycle appears little researched (the more researched it is, the more detail I like going into.) So for example here, as the cycle will work with Winstrol, I left the detail of it being Winstrol or another oral alone, particularly as there was no anti-aromatase already in the plan. That’s just me; on your mentioning it, I agree with you Dianabol is a better choice here provided an aromatase is added.

The cycle appears very little researched; I would suggest more research before looking for more information.[/quote]

Thanks for all the great posts! Keep them coming!


#15

And thank you!


#16

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Fuck winny. Get some dbol.[/quote]

As I agree dbol is great to stack with, I must mention again that I have NO other sources for gear other than what I already have and am receiving.


#17

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It would do better.

In general as there is so much information already written, I try to leave as little untouched from original ideas as possible, while addressing the things that would be particularly important to change. That’s particularly so for me when the cycle appears little researched (the more researched it is, the more detail I like going into.) So for example here, as the cycle will work with Winstrol, I left the detail of it being Winstrol or another oral alone, particularly as there was no anti-aromatase already in the plan. That’s just me; on your mentioning it, I agree with you Dianabol is a better choice here provided an aromatase is added.

The cycle appears very little researched; I would suggest more research before looking for more information.[/quote]

Mr. Roberts,
While I agree with your last statement, I’m a bit confused by your approach to it. I understand that I need as much information on a subject such as this before I just jump into it…but doesn’t the definition of “research” literally mean “the search of information”? (Honestly not being disrespectful, just inquisitive) And I greatly appreciate all your input and advice thus far, but this is exactly why I registered on this site so I could post my cycle questions for feedback and to research for further info.

I’m completely tracking the fact that a PCT is pretty unnecessary in my situation seeing that I’ll be back on my normal Low-T prescription dose post-cycle…but how do you feel about the 12 week cycle while averaging 600mg of Test-C a week, and the last 6 weeks of Winstrol at 50mg ED?

I’ve used gear multiple times in the past, but it’s been roughly 4 years or so since I last utilized your basic 8-10 week (500mg/week) Test-C cycle…so yes, sir, I’m a bit rusty on my knowledge. I’ll continue to research for more info, but if I could get direct guidance on the maximum amount of Test-C I can take for maximum output (without being excessive, waisting, or using an extra “high-risk” amount) I’d be very appreciative…


#18

I suppose there are many possible definitions!

On the forums I understand it generally to mean, having acquired already enough general information to have come up with a reasonable cycle idea that might need help on details, rather than being overall in a place where it looks as if that wasn’t done.

However, that’s just custom and though I generally follow it, as a veteran it’s absolutely my view you deserve better than I wrote above, which was just the ordinary custom.

By far the best way of recovering natural testosterone production is by use of a SERM, which (no practical importance) stands for selective estrogen receptor modulator. This is a class of drug which acts to block effect of estradiol in estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus. Where this is important is that regulation of testosterone production is by regulation of production of LH, and where testosterone and estradiol levels are in the normal range, the amount of LH produced depends even more on the amount of estradiol in the blood than it does on the amount of testosterone.

By blocking the estradiol receptors, the signaling system “decides” that LH production needs to increase. This helps greatly in restoring testosterone production versus allowing estradiol to activate these receptors as it normally would.

So for example, one would use typically Clomid or Nolvadex at dosings such as Day 1 of PCT 100 mg of Clomid three times, or 40 mg of Nolvadex three times, and then 50 mg Clomid per day or 20 mg Nolvadex per day for a few weeks after that.

That’s PCT (assuming that testicular atrophy wasn’t allowed to occur during the cycle, which generally isn’t an issue with an 8 week cycle, but more often is with longer cycles.)

I would prefer seeing an 8 week cycle rather than a longer one, as recovery is likely to be faster, with possibly less risk of becoming yet more hypogonadal, depending on the type of hypogonadism.

The shorter cycle allows starting the next cycle sooner, and more cycles per year, and over the course of a year will be at least as productive.

To get the cycle going quickly, I would frontload the injectable, by taking 600 mg on Day 1. If this is not done, it takes weeks for levels to ramp up.

I would also use an antiaromatase, which can be purchased from “research chemical” places. 1 mg per day letrozole would likely be reasonable, though dosing can vary according to the individual. Without this, it’s possible that although you did fine with lower doses of testosterone, the planned increase might cause gynecomastia.


#19

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It would do better.

In general as there is so much information already written, I try to leave as little untouched from original ideas as possible, while addressing the things that would be particularly important to change. That’s particularly so for me when the cycle appears little researched (the more researched it is, the more detail I like going into.) So for example here, as the cycle will work with Winstrol, I left the detail of it being Winstrol or another oral alone, particularly as there was no anti-aromatase already in the plan. That’s just me; on your mentioning it, I agree with you Dianabol is a better choice here provided an aromatase is added.

The cycle appears very little researched; I would suggest more research before looking for more information.[/quote]

Also, I will look into, and acquire, an anti-aromatase…any particular suggestions and doses with this cycle. I see that they’re fairly easy to get ahold of, so now I just need to figure out what kind and how much. Thanks again, sir.


#20

1 mg per day of letrozole is typically suitable. Generally the products will be liquid, so depending on the particular product, this will be some volume of liquid, taken orally.

You’re very welcome!