T Nation

Time to Hop Over to the Dark Side or Too Soon?


Hello! long time lurker first time posting. I'm wanted opinions on my physique and if I can achieve much more naturally or if it's time to hop on dat dere cell tech :wink: ? I'm not opposed to using gear and have in fact used before when I was 19. (6 years ago) I took a over the counter supplement called mdrol provided to me from a buddy.Took for 15 days before lethargy hit hard and stopped due to sides. Luckily at that time I had enough sense to run nolva at 40/30/20/10. Since then I haven't used any PED and have made a lot of progress.

Current stats:
193-195 lbs
10%-12% BF maybe slightly less (not measured just guessing)

Squat: 425 Beltless with sleeves
Bench: 295 TNG
Deadlift: 525 Beltless

will try to post pics if i can figure out how. Sorry first post haha


Any advice is appreciated. I have thick skin you won't hurt my feelers :smile: thanks a lot guys!


You're young enough that you could probably continue to grow naturally with no problem. You're at a much higher level than many others who have posted on here looking to experiment with a first cycle, so you'd be fine if you want to go that route. Do a quick search for a couple of threads: Steroids for Dummies and Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning.

Also, check out a thread by a member named KSMan. It's called "The SERM Dosing in this forum is wrong" (Pretty much you should run Nolva at 20/20/20/20)

If you're going to do it, the recommendation by almost everyone here is to see how your body reacts to synthetic Testosterone before combining other compounds. Basically a 500mg/week cycle of Test only.

Should you choose to go this route, do as much research as you can for each question, post what you've learned from searching. You'll get better treatment and better information.


I've read both of those already haha. as well as reading William Llewelyn anabolic steroids 10th edition, the laymans guide to steroids by mick hart, and the underground steroid handbook 2 by Daniel duchaine. I love to read and love learning. I've been lurking here for probably 6 months reading through cycle logs trying to learn as much as possible. I feel pretty well informed with steroid use and it's abuse and I know fairly certain what cycle I would do along with how to run a pct and how to control estrogen/ prolactin. im in no rush to use Steriods. I see using gear as a last resort type senerio for myself personally. This being the reason I wanted people's insight (which I appreciate very much btw!) as I find it very difficult to make progress now. I'm glad that you think I can still progress as that makes me feel very hopeful. Staying natural as long as possible would be ideal for me.

It's nice to hear someone's else's opinion which matches my own as I too think I could make some more progress. Although, I believe I would need to be in a long term surplus of calories ( most likely 2-3 years) just for a hopeful 3-5 more pounds of lean tissue. Then I'd still have to diet down and hope to keep some haha. I'm not really sure which route I'm going to take.

I really appreciate your post and taking the time to help me out. It's nice to be a part of a community of like minded individuals where we can all help each other out. Thanks again !


Thanks for the reply !


Really, you can get a lot more natural progress. You're advanced enough and you have obviously put your time in so I won't bust your balls about doing a cycle, but I do believe you can pull 600+ and squat 500, bench 350 natural.

For natural trainees it usually comes down to nutrition timing and training program stagnation as key factors for plateauing in progress for both strength and size.

As Dave Tate says, "I've seen guys that I swore were juiced to the gills only to have them come up to me and say 'hey Im thinking about doin a cycle here what do you think' ". You can get a lot stronger and bigger than most think naturally. Whether you want to or not, thats up to you. Dave Tate calls AAS the "trump card". That's your ace, you only get to really play it once (speaking of first cycles)


I have chosen to keep it natural for now. Just because it's getting more difficult is a poor excuse to run gear. I have to be honest with myself and you guys have helped with that. I was getting down on my progress as of late but looking back and looking at my training as a whole I'm doing just fine. Going to slowly bring my weight up to 215-220lbs over the next 12-18 months and then go from there. Totaling 1500 would be a tremendous goal as a natural. You guys are right and I appreciate your responses very much. I've got a lot of work to do :smile:


With that attitude you will make a lot of progress in the next 18 months! Good job.

Maybe set up a thread asking about your training and nutrition in the powerlifting or bodybuilding forums to see if you get any useful ideas.