[quote]Antman517 wrote:
Dumb question, but it must be asked. When you said you had torn both rotators at some point, did you have them surgically repaired? Not everyone who has a minimal or partial tear has it fixed, so I don’t wanna assume you did.[/quote]
I’ve always been wary about surgical repairs so I didn’t get either fixed (mostly the scar tissue keeps me from moving them in some directions, but my left one definitely has some constant pain under use and instability). I know more than one person that has ended up worse after than before, but I will admit that in the last 5 years or so repairs seem to have gotten much better- enough so that I’ve seriously considered getting especially my left shoulder a thorough looking over again to see what could be done. My training partner from back then just had his shoulder replaced :-/
If technique is your problem, I highly suggest searching this site for Dave Tate’s 6 Week Bench Press Cure. It has video with it that you should watch. It also lays out a 6 week program which, I believe, is based in part on Westside methods, with a max effort day and dynamic effort day.
I used the program last fall and went from 275 to 305 in 6 weeks. I am redoing it right now. I feel that the biggest thing for me was the video showing technique. I spent my whole life benching like a bodybuilder and hating it because I was frustrated because I couldn’t make any real progress.
I don’t know if the program is Westside based or not, but it sounds like it with the max effort days and dynamic effort days I don’t know squat about Westside so I may be wrong about that but it is a good program nevertheless.
you really should post videos of both your shoulder press and bench press. You started this thread a month ago, you have no excuse for not having done this if you’re interested in receiving more advice. It’s really the only way anyone here can begin to help you.
So an update (sorry I’ve been gone a while, the newbie post moderation lag was getting to me then I had to re-install my laptop…).
What I started trying:
chest day:
pause reps, max weight according to my periodation cycle (so I would start light, 14-16reps the first week, 10-12 next, 6-8 next… I know, not really a powerlifting workout but…)
incline (sometimes bar, sometimes dumbell), with pauses
some single joint stuff (typically cable flys in a few positions)
board presses
and then a few sets of bench at the end of every workout day. I was’t really concerned about weight or reps, just what felt like good, heavy work at that point.
the good:
-My comfortable weight that I can do some reps with has gone up >75lbs in a few weeks
-My shoulder press, well I don’t know what I can do max but number of reps has gotten significantly stronger. I put up 225 for 13 or 14 last friday (with a 10 second pause in there somewhere between 7 and 10, long story). I have wondered what I can do for lower reps, but I’m not too concerned about it so I haven’t tried.
the bad:
-2 weeks ago my right shoulder (the one that is usually OK) started clicking. No pain but clicking. At first it would only do it after a few reps with 185 or higher, but then it started doing it some of the time I swung my arm around. Still no pain but it has me freaked out.
-My triceps tendons are ending up sore. Not a “hurt, I can’t do anything sore,” it doesn’t seem to affect any exercises at all, but they’ve been getting sort of uncomfortable, especially my left one (though I’m prone to that and forearms “tennis elbow” since I was a kid)
-Last week I let off on the “every workout” part just to see if the clicking goes away (it’s better, but not gone)
-Last week while doing back and biceps I think I tweaked my left biceps tendon at the top where it inserts into the shoulder… It hurt during my workout but went away soon after. Monday doing chest I felt something in that area of my shoulder but I’m not sure if it’s just my shoulder or that same spot. I’ll know tonight when I do back and biceps again
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
you really should post videos of both your shoulder press and bench press. You started this thread a month ago, you have no excuse for not having done this if you’re interested in receiving more advice. It’s really the only way anyone here can begin to help you.[/quote]
Flipcollar, I appreciate and understand that, and I really appreciate all advice I’ve gotten here. It has given me some things to think about.
I’ve had one, maybe 2 opportunities, both at the end of a back/biceps day which somehow turned into an attempt at keeping my lats from cramping (and I felt that anything I did wasn’t representative of how I would normally bench, I’m not worried about showing weight, just motion), and then into a joking session about how long my arms are (I’ve accidentally thrown the bar over the rests of one of the benches in the gym, I was on one of the bigger benches and the guy in question is about 6’3" and he starts with “Look how long his arms are, I’m tall and I get it an inch or so over the rests, he’s like 10” over it." “it’s like running a marathon…”)
ok I’m really confused on this lack of opportunities to make a video. let’s clarify some things…
Do you have a cell phone that is capable of taking videos?
Do you lift weights at a facility that other people go to?
If you have these 2 things, you can take a video any day of the week. It will literally take less than 1 minute, for each exercise. You go up to any person in the gym and say, “hey, can you film this for me real quick?” You hand them your cell phone. They film it. Then you upload to youtube. Then you post the link here. If you don’t have a youtube account, that also takes less than 5 minutes to set up, and can be done at any time. You have this opportunity every single time you go to your gym. Like, you could literally tell me to film any single lift for any number of reps, and I could have a video posted by midnight tonight. So I don’t understand your dilemma here.
If you just don’t want to post a video, then say that instead, lol.
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
If it makes you feel better, I’ve push pressed 365 but still haven’t benched 400. [/quote]
LOL, great… so you’re stronger than me at both… next you’ll tell me that you’re 5’10" and 200 and nothing pounds…
I never know what to make of the fact that most powerlifters and bodybuilders seem to average around 5’8". One of the guys that I hang out with at the gym is probably 5’8"-5’9" and went from 165 to 175 in the last year and everyone thinks he’s massive… I have 70# (and 22 years ) on him and can outdo him in every exercise we’ve tried with half the break between sets… oh well…
I keep finding stuff talking about a 6 week cure but it’s all in the forums and a video…[/quote]
[/quote]
I just browsed through the link you posted and it is in there too. What you posted actually has more information. Thanks.[/quote]
I spent a little time looking at that, and I’m a bit confused about a few things:
Is that meant to be your entire upper body workout for the week? The reason I find it confusing is because it has pushing, pulling, pressing… motions in it as well as just a “upper body free time” where you do whatever else you want. So you do this for 2 days a week and fill in with a leg day or 2 and that’s it? Or do you still have separate back, shoulders, arms… days?
Why is he specifying a lot of things 2 rep short of failure? (that’s going to be a hard one for someone that did drop sets to failure on almost everything for a while and lately has replaced some of them with pause/rest sets)
I’m not sure I know what some of the exercises are based on what is in the plan, like what’s a:
–“dumbbell extension?” (maybe like an overhead dumbbell triceps extension?)
–“Chest supported row?” (like is this any rowing motion with a chest pad, a T-bar row, a Hammer strength row or similar machine, wide grip/harrow grip/hammer grip?)
–“Dumbbell Extension on Floor” (total loss here, if the above one was a triceps extension…)
OldOgre (how old are you?), you say you’ve done it?
It sounds like a lot of guys stand around doing curls and looking at each other where you lift.
You want on-lookers in the gym to critique your set up on the bench, not marvel at how much you pec-dec. They should be giving you verbal cues when you lift, not comparing arm lengths.
Find any power lifting gym in your area. Go on Saturday, and watch some big benchers bench! You don’t have to work out with them, just pay attention to the pace and execution of their lifting. You’ll learn a ton.
IMO you are still suffering from the effects of not having your rotator tears repaired. When you try to train through a major injury like that, your body adapts by changing form (usually for the worse) to protect to injury. My guess is that is the root of your bench problems. Tears weaken the connective tissues. You are only as strong as your tendons and ligaments. If those aren’t 100%, neither will your strength be.
I keep finding stuff talking about a 6 week cure but it’s all in the forums and a video…[/quote]
[/quote]
I just browsed through the link you posted and it is in there too. What you posted actually has more information. Thanks.[/quote]
I spent a little time looking at that, and I’m a bit confused about a few things:
Is that meant to be your entire upper body workout for the week? The reason I find it confusing is because it has pushing, pulling, pressing… motions in it as well as just a “upper body free time” where you do whatever else you want. So you do this for 2 days a week and fill in with a leg day or 2 and that’s it? Or do you still have separate back, shoulders, arms… days?
Why is he specifying a lot of things 2 rep short of failure? (that’s going to be a hard one for someone that did drop sets to failure on almost everything for a while and lately has replaced some of them with pause/rest sets)
I’m not sure I know what some of the exercises are based on what is in the plan, like what’s a:
–“dumbbell extension?” (maybe like an overhead dumbbell triceps extension?)
–“Chest supported row?” (like is this any rowing motion with a chest pad, a T-bar row, a Hammer strength row or similar machine, wide grip/harrow grip/hammer grip?)
–“Dumbbell Extension on Floor” (total loss here, if the above one was a triceps extension…)
OldOgre (how old are you?), you say you’ve done it?
[/quote]
I am 43. I did it last fall and put 35 pounds on my bench. I am redoing it again right now. It will be interesting to see if I can make a similar gain or if last time was almost like a newbie gain since I had never benched in that fashion and had never focused on it so much. I will find out in a few weeks.
I treat it like 2 chest days per week. I still do shoulders and back on other days but I try to avoid direcrly hitting the same muscles. Ie: my seperate back day will not have horizontal pulling. My shoulder day will not have anything isolating rear delts since I do them after benching. I do vertical pulling on back day and my shoulder day usually has some sort of OHP, side and front raises. On the accessory work, I am not 100% sure that I know exactly what he means by DB extensions either so I just do some form tricep extension. Same for the other exercises.
I was hoping that you were going to say something like 63.
I’m 43 also. I AM NOT OLD!
[quote] I did it last fall and put 35 pounds on my bench. I am redoing it again right now. It will be interesting to see if I can make a similar gain or if last time was almost like a newbie gain since I had never benched in that fashion and had never focused on it so much. I will find out in a few weeks.
I treat it like 2 chest days per week. I still do shoulders and back on other days but I try to avoid direcrly hitting the same muscles. Ie: my seperate back day will not have horizontal pulling. My shoulder day will not have anything isolating rear delts since I do them after benching. I do vertical pulling on back day and my shoulder day usually has some sort of OHP, side and front raises. On the accessory work, I am not 100% sure that I know exactly what he means by DB extensions either so I just do some form tricep extension. Same for the other exercises.
[/quote]
Huh, doesn’t seem like a lot of actual chest/bench work. Huh… I don’t know what to make of it. I don’t know that there is really a good place to do floor presses in my gym for the first day, and I don’t think I could do the wide grip bench presses at all (my shoulders wont take it) for the second day…
I’m also a bit weird about the max effort vs dynamic days… seems like the floor presses at 5 reps on the max effort day are more dyanamic than the 8x3rep bench presses on the dyanamic day…
So I finally shot a video… This was after my workout, and I just walked over and did a few reps with what was on the bar. I’d just finished some heavy T-bar rows and it felt like I was coming down maybe slightly higher on my chest than normal, but it might have been my imagination.
FWIW, I normally won’t wear gloves but i sprained my left wrist just after I started this thread and the padding in the gloves is just enough to take the pressure off the spot in my hand that is still sore.
There is really no setup or leg drive or anything to your bench at all. Dig your shoulders into the bench, create a small arch in your upper back, find a good foot position and keep it the entire time while pushing the floor away form you. A lot can be changed with your bench
